🤞🤞🤞
Yikes. AWD battery charging is atrocious
Thoughts on this test? I didn’t think it would really drop so much in 60 F weather. Probably not going to be a great choice here in the northeast…
www.motortrend.com
The 2023 Toyota bZ4X's Charging Speed Plummets When Temperature Drops
MotorTrend tested how the 2023 Toyota bz4x EV charges on a DC fast charger and it wasn't good, even when it’s not that cold.
21 - 40 of 83 Posts
That depends if you are talking 0-100% (11 hrs) or 20-100% (9 hrs). The AC chargers on the Solterra and bZ4X are the same at 6.6 kW, so both will charge at the same rate. I explained this in an earlier post in this thread.
Yikes. AWD battery charging is atrocious
Thoughts on this test? I didn’t think it would really drop so much in 60 F weather. Probably not going to be a great choice here in the northeast…...
www.solterraforum.com
Practically, it doesn't really matter. Most L2 AC charging will happen in your garage, and will cost you in kWh, not minutes. Many outside L2 chargers are free, and not used for trip charging, except at an overnight hotel. The latter is becoming a free amenity like free wifi and free breakfasts. I made good use of that on a ski trip a few months ago.
The results don’t get any better. If ToyoBaru slapped a larger buffer (even larger than Ford) then it means the usable capacity is sub 60 kWh which is no better than EV6 Light or Ioniq 5 58 kWh EVs which are pretty crippled in range.
“An interesting thing is that the charger reports 61 kWh delivered over the full charging session. Considering that the total battery capacity is 72.8 kWh, the difference is 11.8 kWh and that does not even include charging losses and other auxiliary loads.”
(My notes: charging losses are about 6-12% so 55 kWh could be a worst case for usable battery capacity if this test is accurate)
insideevs.com
222 miles of EPA range might only be possible in ideal conditions if sub 60 kWh is true.
“An interesting thing is that the charger reports 61 kWh delivered over the full charging session. Considering that the total battery capacity is 72.8 kWh, the difference is 11.8 kWh and that does not even include charging losses and other auxiliary loads.”
(My notes: charging losses are about 6-12% so 55 kWh could be a worst case for usable battery capacity if this test is accurate)
Watch Toyota bZ4X AWD Fast Charging Test: 0-80% SOC Took One Hour
A fast-charging test of a 2022 Toyota bZ4X AWD, equipped with a 72.8 kWh battery, disappoints as the car required 25 minutes to reach 50% SOC.
insideevs.com
222 miles of EPA range might only be possible in ideal conditions if sub 60 kWh is true.
You're not taking into account the usable buffer for the Toyota. Kyle mentioned something about how he'd liked to run the Toyota below 0% until it stops, so we'd know how much usable buffer there is. Indications are that there's a good amount, since acceleration was still good at 0%. Oh, and the 61 kWh delivered was at 99% SoC (as indicated by the charger), not the full charge. Note that we also don't know how much usable buffer there is above 100%, if any for this Toyota.The results don’t get any better. If ToyoBaru slapped a larger buffer (even larger than Ford) then it means the usable capacity is sub 60 kWh which is no better than EV6 Light or Ioniq 5 58 kWh EVs which are pretty crippled in range.
“An interesting thing is that the charger reports 61 kWh delivered over the full charging session. Considering that the total battery capacity is 72.8 kWh, the difference is 11.8 kWh and that does not even include charging losses and other auxiliary loads.”
(My notes: charging losses are about 6-12% so 55 kWh could be a worst case for usable battery capacity if this test is accurate)
Watch Toyota bZ4X AWD Fast Charging Test: 0-80% SOC Took One Hour
A fast-charging test of a 2022 Toyota bZ4X AWD, equipped with a 72.8 kWh battery, disappoints as the car required 25 minutes to reach 50% SOC.
222 miles of EPA range might only be possible in ideal conditions if sub 60 kWh is true.
I'm not saying there are going to be sudden game-changing new battery chemistries, but energy density and cost per kWh has been rapidly declining (and as a result, range has gone up) and fast charging speed has been going up for ten years. Won't be too long before a $50k car has 10-minute 10-80% DC charging and a 400 mile range. At that point, who cares how long your 220 mile range battery with 45 minute 10-80% charging will last? Maybe a retired person on a fixed income who can't afford to replace much on their car, but is the Solterra with its off-road capabilities really the right car for that person in the first place?
Report: EV battery costs hit another low in 2021, but they might rise in 2022
Rising battery costs rising from a 2021 low of $132/kwh could slow EV adoption as well as push back the price parity with internal combustion, BNEF warns.
I have no hope for a $50K going 400 mile range. First off... NMC/NCA energy density improvements have been very incremental. Like 15-20% over the last 10 years.I'm not saying there are going to be sudden game-changing new battery chemistries, but energy density and cost per kWh has been rapidly declining (and as a result, range has gone up) and fast charging speed has been going up for ten years. Won't be too long before a $50k car has 10-minute 10-80% DC charging and a 400 mile range. At that point, who cares how long your 220 mile range battery with 45 minute 10-80% charging will last? Maybe a retired person on a fixed income who can't afford to replace much on their car, but is the Solterra with its off-road capabilities really the right car for that person in the first place?
Report: EV battery costs hit another low in 2021, but they might rise in 2022
Rising battery costs rising from a 2021 low of $132/kwh could slow EV adoption as well as push back the price parity with internal combustion, BNEF warns.www.greencarreports.com
Second... material prices have shot through the roof (300% in the last few months) and with the EV boom it will only get worse. Lithium and nickel are not rare but cobalt is. LFP is backwards in terms of energy density but it is cheaper and I'd say 40-50% of the world's EVs are using this cheapo battery tech because of how widely adopted it is in China.
My opinion is the mad rush to EVs will cause material costs to skyrocket over the next 5 years. 400 mile EVs will be $120K+ (Lucid). All the mainstream EVs will use LFPs and have 200-250 mile ranges and cost $60K+
EVs costing $50K or less will be a rarity in the US. I don't see ToyoBaru making a dime on the Solterra or bz4x because the margins are basically zero. These feel like emission compliance cars.
21 - 40 of 83 Posts
