[bobleon39540]

Why It’s Smart For Subaru To Pull Away From Toyota Now And Make Its Own EVs | Torque News

The 2023 Subaru Solterra EV should have been made available for customers in June, but there is a delay due to a recent recall. The Solterra is manufactured at Toyota's plant in Japan, where Subaru has no control. Now, Subaru will distance itself from Toyota when building its following new...

www.torquenews.com

 

[Soltrrfrm]

They don’t have the R&D capability or budget to develop their own EV platform. Luckily since Toyota owns 20% off Subaru, they really don’t have to make their own platform.

 

[326]

Why It’s Smart For Subaru To Pull Away From Toyota Now And Make Its Own EVs | Torque News

The 2023 Subaru Solterra EV should have been made available for customers in June, but there is a delay due to a recent recall. The Solterra is manufactured at Toyota's plant in Japan, where Subaru has no control. Now, Subaru will distance itself from Toyota when building its following new...

www.torquenews.com

Another brilliant advertorial from Torque News. I stopped reading their "news" stories a while ago.

 

[FelineFreddie]

IMO, Subaru making its own vehicles is not the same as pulling away from Toyota. Technically speaking, they can control their own production but still collaborate with Toyota (or others, if it makes sense).

Like has been pointed out already, Torque News probably shouldn’t be one’s “go to” site for highly accurate reporting…

 

[poodlemaster]

Well I'm trading my low mileage, cherry 2019 BRZ, so I'm already there, with Toyota.

 

[frankamartin]

Subaru forecast on May 13th (16 weeks ago) their predictions the FYE 2023 (starts 1 April 2022). They predicted a 28% jump YoY in vehicle sales (globally). So far US sales are down 18%. That is a pretty serious misfire in only 16 weeks.

This situation with the gasoline vehicles is starting to look pretty grim long term. Sales might come under half a million vehicles in the US, something that hasn't happened since 2013. Subaru better have a line of EVs independent of Toyota or it may get swallowed up.

2nd QTR	Model (US sales)	1st half
-59%	Forester	-47%
-4%	Outback	-12%
+17%	Ascent	+9%
+12%	Crosstrek	+9%
-31%	Impreza	-17%
+3%	Legacy	-5%
-35%	WRX	-56%
+401%	BRZ	+131%
-18%	TOTAL	-18%

 

[frankamartin]

Like has been pointed out already, Torque News probably shouldn’t be one’s “go to” site for highly accurate reporting…

By 2025, Subaru will begin introducing its next-generation hybrid models based on gasoline-electric powertrains provided by Toyota, similar to the 2022 Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid. Customers can expect Forester, Outback, and Ascent hybrid SUVs by 2025.

That comment in Torque News seems to imply that the turbocharged engine will be the one upgraded to hybrid and they will leave the naturally aspirated engines alone.

 

[JIm_in_PA]

The veracity of the source notwithstanding, there is also the matter that the whole flippin' industry collaborates, even when there isn't an ownership stake like Toyota has with Subaru. It's a normal thing to do that when there are measurable benefits to do so.

 

[FelineFreddie]

Yes, look at the Toyota Supra/BMW Z4.

 

[StevenH]

Seems to me the collaboration is working well. But, I'd still like to hear the engineering teams give their thoughts on the hub bolt design.

 

[442]

Yes, look at the Toyota Supra/BMW Z4.

Don’t forget the Corolla Cross / Mazda CX-50 Outback competitor collaboration.

 

[frankamartin]

The veracity of the source notwithstanding, there is also the matter that the whole flippin' industry collaborates, even when there isn't an ownership stake like Toyota has with Subaru.

The EPA automotive trends database list the Toyota Supra as being manufactured by BMW and the Mitsubushi Outlander as being manufactured by Nissan.

But the Subaru Global Platform was designed to handle electric vehicles. The Solterra uses the Toyota platform. Eventually Subaru has to have its own EVs or it might just become a subsidiary company to Toyota.

 

[JIm_in_PA]

But the Subaru Global Platform was designed to handle electric vehicles. The Solterra uses the Toyota platform. Eventually Subaru has to have its own EVs or it might just become a subsidiary company to Toyota.

I have the impression from someone "in the know" that there may be some news coming on this; whether or not it will be soon or not is a different story. I'm honestly not worried about this. The collaboration for this first one makes sense in some respects, but I do not believe that Subaru intends to continue that long term for future offerings.

 

[StevenH]

I have the impression from someone "in the know" that there may be some news coming on this; whether or not it will be soon or not is a different story. I'm honestly not worried about this. The collaboration for this first one makes sense in some respects, but I do not believe that Subaru intends to continue that long term for future offerings.

I think these designs are completed years before they are announced. So, I expect quite a few more Subaru EVs over the next few years will have shared platforms with Toyota. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

 

[frankamartin]

I expect quite a few more Subaru EVs over the next few years will have shared platforms with Toyota. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

Possibly the inclusion of X-mode in the Subaru, which is not in the Toyota bZ4X will give it enough of a unique personality that there won't be an obvious merger of the Subaru and Toyota lines.

The Toyota yoke when paired with front wheel drive bZ4X may end up giving that model a little bit of a toy-car, wanna be Tesla, kind of reputation, while the Solterra retains the rugged outdoorsy appeal. That may sound a little simplistic, but look at Lexus where the consumer's reaction to the grill is a huge factor in whether it is purchased or not.

 

[potato]

Possibly the inclusion of X-mode in the Subaru, which is not in the Toyota bZ4X will give it enough of a unique personality that there won't be an obvious merger of the Subaru and Toyota lines.

The bZ4X did get X-mode. But yeah, Subaru will have to differentiate themselves somehow. Or at least I think they should.

 

[StevenH]

Possibly the inclusion of X-mode in the Subaru, which is not in the Toyota bZ4X will give it enough of a unique personality that there won't be an obvious merger of the Subaru and Toyota lines.

Interestingly, the bZ4X does have X-mode.

But a few things distinguish the Solterra:
1. 8.3" vs 8.1" ground clearance
2. Real fender cladding
3. Fog lights
4. Memory driver's seat
5. Power mode
6. Paddle shifters to adjust regen
7. Digital rear-view mirror
8. Capacitive wheel to let car know you're alert during lane centering assist.
9. I think I read something about a slight difference in rear suspension for better driving dynamics.

One thing the Solterra doesn't get is the radiant foot and leg warmers that the bZ4X gets.

 

[frankamartin]

Interestingly, the bZ4X does have X-mode.

Mea Culpa, I must have been reading old articles. Nothing is erased off the internet.

But a few things distinguish the Solterra:
1. 8.3" vs 8.1" ground clearance
2. Real fender cladding
3. Fog lights
4. Memory driver's seat
5. Power mode
6. Paddle shifters to adjust regen
7. Digital rear-view mirror
8. Capacitive wheel to let car know you're alert during lane centering assist.
9. I think I read something about a slight difference in rear suspension for better driving dynamics.

Subaru markets the BRX differently than Toyota markets the GR86. Cnet says Subaru says the BRZ has a 75% take rate for the manual transmission, while the Toyota 86, has a take rate of only 46%, and with the Mazda MX-5 Miata, it's 58%. So Subaru is more appealing to the fantasy road rally buyer.

So even though the differences that distinguish the Solterra from the bZ4X are not terribly profound, Subaru may be more successful at marketing to the outdoorsy crowd than Toyota.

 

[FelineFreddie]

If you’re old enough to remember, differentiation between models built on the same basic platform has a lot of history.

GM, Ford and Chrysler were masters of aiming basically the same vehicle at different market segments for decades in the USA… collaboration between manufacturers to do the same basic thing seems, to me, a natural progression…

 

[JayEM]

One thing the Solterra doesn't get is the radiant foot and leg warmers that the bZ4X gets.

9 months of the year, even living in the snow belt, I can do without the radiant leg warmers. For the remaining 3 it won't be that hard, especially with seat and steering wheel warmers. Most of the Subaru-only features are useful 12 months of the year.