[PilotEV]

I have been contemplating EV ownership for a few years, and with the launch of the newest generation of EV's from mainstream manufacturers, I believe I am ready to go for it. There are pros and cons to every single EV out there for what my needs are, trying to think about this logically and see if it is actually worth doing so.

Current Vehicle: 2021 Subaru Outback XT Onyx Edition, 16000 miles, purchased new December 2021. No mechanical issues. Lifetime fuel economy estimate is 20.4 mpg, filled exclusively with Costco Premium 93, oil change interval 4000 miles or 6 months. Average driving 1000 miles per month, which uses about 50 gallons of fuel. Fuel costs are roughly $4.50 per gallon of 93, which results in an average cost per mile of 22.5 cents. Over a year, this will use 600 gallons of fuel, or about $2700.

Commute: 5 days/week (sometimes 6) of either a very urban city route (think NYC-esque) 10 miles each way; alternate routes include toll highways 15 miles each way. Tolls add about $2 each way.

Summer Commute: In summer, we tend to spend a lot of time in shore areas, which changes my commute to about 50 miles each way. This is also on toll highways, but there is no alternate considered for the majority of it.

Electrical: I have a 240V 60A line ready to go, which terminates at a junction box. It is ready for up to 48A continuous charging, if the car and EVSE supports it. I have not chosen an EVSE yet, but I am leaning towards a Grizzl-e model that will be mounted on the exterior of the house, as I park in my driveway. There is no 240V option at the shore destinations, so I will use 120V and have to supplement with DCFC as needed. My workplace does not and will not offer charging options, including use of a standard outlet for 120V charging. My home electrical rate for supply and delivery, combined, is about 16 cents per kWh (it's slightly below 16 cents to a certain point, and then it increases slightly above in the next "tier" of usage).

DCFC sites: I have an Electrify America site within a half mile of my house in the event of my EVSE malfunction or power outage, another EA site about 3 miles from my workplace, another EA site half way between work and home. For the summer commutes, I have additional EA sites and EVGo sites about 20 miles into the leg from both directions. I am intending to use the one near work as needed in the summer to help supplement the 120V charging.

For rough estimation purposes, 3 miles per kWh - which seems modest/typical of an SUV-style EV - will cost about 5.33 cents per mile driven - roughly a savings of $2000 per year in fuel costs. My maintenance services typically cost around $75 each, three times a year (the oil changes are about $65 and the tire rotation every-other-service is $20). Major services are considerably more expensive, especially the spark plugs on my Boxer.

My primary focus of this is longevity, utility, and safety. I intend to keep this vehicle for roughly 10 years - perhaps slightly longer - as I believe it will fit my needs. The vehicle must be big enough to hold myself, my kids, and our sports equipment in the back (I coach baseball and soccer, so lots of stuff to haul around), so sedan style vehicles are essentially out. I enjoyed my Forester but wanted a "deeper" rather than "taller" cargo space, so I ended up changing it out at lease end for an Outback. I previously owned a 2.5 Outback and wanted more power, so having nearly 50% more horsepower for less than 10% of a fuel economy penalty seemed like a smart decision, and I went for one of the XT trims. My target is $50,000 or less before Federal Tax Credits, must be under $45,000 after all tax credits are factored in. AWD is a must as I have to report for work in bad weather.

At this time there are no state incentives other than "zero" state sales tax.

These EV's are featured in the Consumer Reports list, and I have some comments/questions/etc. about them for consideration:

Kia Nero - Too small.
Ford Mach-E: Possibly, seems like they had lot of software glitches. Would be nice to get it through X-Plan.
Hyundai Ioniq 5: Interested, seems like long wait list, would be interested in mid-trim level.
Tesla Model 3: Sedan, too small
Tesla Model Y: Pricing, too expensive, I don't want a flashy car.
Nissan Leaf: Range is too low, inability to DCFC multiple times, battery degradation due to air cooled engine
Chevy Bolt: Too small
Chevy Bolt EUV: Possibly, pricing seems good here, have to research more about AWD options, not the best track record with battery problems.
Hyundai Kona: Too small
VW ID4: On principle, I disapprove of this company due to Dieselgate, and as a punishment, founded Electrify America, and now will turn a profit from their punishment??? Possibly interested as a last resort, concerned about electrical long term reliability as this is not their strongest segment with ICE cars.
Polestar 2 AWD w/ Pilot & Plus Pack: Expensive, but appear to be selling below MSRP. Could be an option. Co-workers have them and they both have issues with data connectivity. One has had a loaner for weeks and is considering a lemon case.
Fisker Ocean: Too flashy for my tastes, too new, entry trim very minimal.
Nissan Ariya: No tax credits, so too expensive as base trim is above my target.
Toyota BZ4X: Wait list. Would consider AWD variant. Likely above target price after credits phase out.
KIA EV6: MSRP+5k pricing puts it above target. Interested. Unsure how 800V charging will hold up.
Subaru Solterra: Primary choice. Higher than expected in price but tax credits drop below target. Slow DCFC but shouldn't use that more than a couple times a year.
Volvo C40: Above target price. I do like the look though.

I suppose I have to figure out if it's worth it to me to pursue the Solterra, or if I should continue driving the Outback for a couple more years. I am hoping for an Outback or Forester EV in the future, but I am thinking that people need to support this technology to show that there's enough interested to dedicate resources to developing the EV versions of the regular fleet.

Your thoughts?

 

[JayEM]

I have been contemplating EV ownership for a few years, and with the launch of the newest generation of EV's from mainstream manufacturers, I believe I am ready to go for it. There are pros and cons to every single EV out there for what my needs are, trying to think about this logically and see if it is actually worth doing so.

Current Vehicle: 2021 Subaru Outback XT Onyx Edition, 16000 miles, purchased new December 2021. No mechanical issues. Lifetime fuel economy estimate is 20.4 mpg, filled exclusively with Costco Premium 93, oil change interval 4000 miles or 6 months. Average driving 1000 miles per month, which uses about 50 gallons of fuel. Fuel costs are roughly $4.50 per gallon of 93, which results in an average cost per mile of 22.5 cents. Over a year, this will use 600 gallons of fuel, or about $2700.

Commute: 5 days/week (sometimes 6) of either a very urban city route (think NYC-esque) 10 miles each way; alternate routes include toll highways 15 miles each way. Tolls add about $2 each way.

Summer Commute: In summer, we tend to spend a lot of time in shore areas, which changes my commute to about 50 miles each way. This is also on toll highways, but there is no alternate considered for the majority of it.

Electrical: I have a 240V 60A line ready to go, which terminates at a junction box. It is ready for up to 48A continuous charging, if the car and EVSE supports it. I have not chosen an EVSE yet, but I am leaning towards a Grizzl-e model that will be mounted on the exterior of the house, as I park in my driveway. There is no 240V option at the shore destinations, so I will use 120V and have to supplement with DCFC as needed. My workplace does not and will not offer charging options, including use of a standard outlet for 120V charging. My home electrical rate for supply and delivery, combined, is about 16 cents per kWh (it's slightly below 16 cents to a certain point, and then it increases slightly above in the next "tier" of usage).

DCFC sites: I have an Electrify America site within a half mile of my house in the event of my EVSE malfunction or power outage, another EA site about 3 miles from my workplace, another EA site half way between work and home. For the summer commutes, I have additional EA sites and EVGo sites about 20 miles into the leg from both directions. I am intending to use the one near work as needed in the summer to help supplement the 120V charging.

For rough estimation purposes, 3 miles per kWh - which seems modest/typical of an SUV-style EV - will cost about 5.33 cents per mile driven - roughly a savings of $2000 per year in fuel costs. My maintenance services typically cost around $75 each, three times a year (the oil changes are about $65 and the tire rotation every-other-service is $20). Major services are considerably more expensive, especially the spark plugs on my Boxer.

My primary focus of this is longevity, utility, and safety. I intend to keep this vehicle for roughly 10 years - perhaps slightly longer - as I believe it will fit my needs. The vehicle must be big enough to hold myself, my kids, and our sports equipment in the back (I coach baseball and soccer, so lots of stuff to haul around), so sedan style vehicles are essentially out. I enjoyed my Forester but wanted a "deeper" rather than "taller" cargo space, so I ended up changing it out at lease end for an Outback. I previously owned a 2.5 Outback and wanted more power, so having nearly 50% more horsepower for less than 10% of a fuel economy penalty seemed like a smart decision, and I went for one of the XT trims. My target is $50,000 or less before Federal Tax Credits, must be under $45,000 after all tax credits are factored in. AWD is a must as I have to report for work in bad weather.

At this time there are no state incentives other than "zero" state sales tax.

These EV's are featured in the Consumer Reports list, and I have some comments/questions/etc. about them for consideration:

Kia Nero - Too small.
Ford Mach-E: Possibly, seems like they had lot of software glitches. Would be nice to get it through X-Plan.
Hyundai Ioniq 5: Interested, seems like long wait list, would be interested in mid-trim level.
Tesla Model 3: Sedan, too small
Tesla Model Y: Pricing, too expensive, I don't want a flashy car.
Nissan Leaf: Range is too low, inability to DCFC multiple times, battery degradation due to air cooled engine
Chevy Bolt: Too small
Chevy Bolt EUV: Possibly, pricing seems good here, have to research more about AWD options, not the best track record with battery problems.
Hyundai Kona: Too small
VW ID4: On principle, I disapprove of this company due to Dieselgate, and as a punishment, founded Electrify America, and now will turn a profit from their punishment??? Possibly interested as a last resort, concerned about electrical long term reliability as this is not their strongest segment with ICE cars.
Polestar 2 AWD w/ Pilot & Plus Pack: Expensive, but appear to be selling below MSRP. Could be an option. Co-workers have them and they both have issues with data connectivity. One has had a loaner for weeks and is considering a lemon case.
Fisker Ocean: Too flashy for my tastes, too new, entry trim very minimal.
Nissan Ariya: No tax credits, so too expensive as base trim is above my target.
Toyota BZ4X: Wait list. Would consider AWD variant. Likely above target price after credits phase out.
KIA EV6: MSRP+5k pricing puts it above target. Interested. Unsure how 800V charging will hold up.
Subaru Solterra: Primary choice. Higher than expected in price but tax credits drop below target. Slow DCFC but shouldn't use that more than a couple times a year.
Volvo C40: Above target price. I do like the look though.

I suppose I have to figure out if it's worth it to me to pursue the Solterra, or if I should continue driving the Outback for a couple more years. I am hoping for an Outback or Forester EV in the future, but I am thinking that people need to support this technology to show that there's enough interested to dedicate resources to developing the EV versions of the regular fleet.

Your thoughts?

Sound reasoning, pretty much matches my analysis. I would add Audi Q4 e-tron to the mix, but my attempts to order one have gone nowhere. Comparable to ID.4 but less "icky" (plasticky) inside.

As an aside, we're going to be keeping our 2021 Outback XT Limited (bought February 2021, 12,000 miles right now). As of last Friday it acquired towing duties (teardrop camper) so have to keep an ICE until I can afford/actually buy a Rivian etc. Our average MPG to date (not counting towing) is around 26, but we almost never drive it in the city (current EV is our daily driver).

The Solterra will be replacing our 2019 BMW i3S which comes off lease in a month. Less range, not nearly as nice inside as the Solterra.... only 1 year left on the warranty, and would cost about 70% of what the Solterra will (after incentives). For us, it's a no-brainer (4-time Subaru owner).

 

[Crumas]

I have been contemplating EV ownership for a few years, and with the launch of the newest generation of EV's from mainstream manufacturers, I believe I am ready to go for it. There are pros and cons to every single EV out there for what my needs are, trying to think about this logically and see if it is actually worth doing so.

Current Vehicle: 2021 Subaru Outback XT Onyx Edition, 16000 miles, purchased new December 2021. No mechanical issues. Lifetime fuel economy estimate is 20.4 mpg, filled exclusively with Costco Premium 93, oil change interval 4000 miles or 6 months. Average driving 1000 miles per month, which uses about 50 gallons of fuel. Fuel costs are roughly $4.50 per gallon of 93, which results in an average cost per mile of 22.5 cents. Over a year, this will use 600 gallons of fuel, or about $2700.

Commute: 5 days/week (sometimes 6) of either a very urban city route (think NYC-esque) 10 miles each way; alternate routes include toll highways 15 miles each way. Tolls add about $2 each way.

Summer Commute: In summer, we tend to spend a lot of time in shore areas, which changes my commute to about 50 miles each way. This is also on toll highways, but there is no alternate considered for the majority of it.

Electrical: I have a 240V 60A line ready to go, which terminates at a junction box. It is ready for up to 48A continuous charging, if the car and EVSE supports it. I have not chosen an EVSE yet, but I am leaning towards a Grizzl-e model that will be mounted on the exterior of the house, as I park in my driveway. There is no 240V option at the shore destinations, so I will use 120V and have to supplement with DCFC as needed. My workplace does not and will not offer charging options, including use of a standard outlet for 120V charging. My home electrical rate for supply and delivery, combined, is about 16 cents per kWh (it's slightly below 16 cents to a certain point, and then it increases slightly above in the next "tier" of usage).

DCFC sites: I have an Electrify America site within a half mile of my house in the event of my EVSE malfunction or power outage, another EA site about 3 miles from my workplace, another EA site half way between work and home. For the summer commutes, I have additional EA sites and EVGo sites about 20 miles into the leg from both directions. I am intending to use the one near work as needed in the summer to help supplement the 120V charging.

For rough estimation purposes, 3 miles per kWh - which seems modest/typical of an SUV-style EV - will cost about 5.33 cents per mile driven - roughly a savings of $2000 per year in fuel costs. My maintenance services typically cost around $75 each, three times a year (the oil changes are about $65 and the tire rotation every-other-service is $20). Major services are considerably more expensive, especially the spark plugs on my Boxer.

My primary focus of this is longevity, utility, and safety. I intend to keep this vehicle for roughly 10 years - perhaps slightly longer - as I believe it will fit my needs. The vehicle must be big enough to hold myself, my kids, and our sports equipment in the back (I coach baseball and soccer, so lots of stuff to haul around), so sedan style vehicles are essentially out. I enjoyed my Forester but wanted a "deeper" rather than "taller" cargo space, so I ended up changing it out at lease end for an Outback. I previously owned a 2.5 Outback and wanted more power, so having nearly 50% more horsepower for less than 10% of a fuel economy penalty seemed like a smart decision, and I went for one of the XT trims. My target is $50,000 or less before Federal Tax Credits, must be under $45,000 after all tax credits are factored in. AWD is a must as I have to report for work in bad weather.

At this time there are no state incentives other than "zero" state sales tax.

These EV's are featured in the Consumer Reports list, and I have some comments/questions/etc. about them for consideration:

Kia Nero - Too small.
Ford Mach-E: Possibly, seems like they had lot of software glitches. Would be nice to get it through X-Plan.
Hyundai Ioniq 5: Interested, seems like long wait list, would be interested in mid-trim level.
Tesla Model 3: Sedan, too small
Tesla Model Y: Pricing, too expensive, I don't want a flashy car.
Nissan Leaf: Range is too low, inability to DCFC multiple times, battery degradation due to air cooled engine
Chevy Bolt: Too small
Chevy Bolt EUV: Possibly, pricing seems good here, have to research more about AWD options, not the best track record with battery problems.
Hyundai Kona: Too small
VW ID4: On principle, I disapprove of this company due to Dieselgate, and as a punishment, founded Electrify America, and now will turn a profit from their punishment??? Possibly interested as a last resort, concerned about electrical long term reliability as this is not their strongest segment with ICE cars.
Polestar 2 AWD w/ Pilot & Plus Pack: Expensive, but appear to be selling below MSRP. Could be an option. Co-workers have them and they both have issues with data connectivity. One has had a loaner for weeks and is considering a lemon case.
Fisker Ocean: Too flashy for my tastes, too new, entry trim very minimal.
Nissan Ariya: No tax credits, so too expensive as base trim is above my target.
Toyota BZ4X: Wait list. Would consider AWD variant. Likely above target price after credits phase out.
KIA EV6: MSRP+5k pricing puts it above target. Interested. Unsure how 800V charging will hold up.
Subaru Solterra: Primary choice. Higher than expected in price but tax credits drop below target. Slow DCFC but shouldn't use that more than a couple times a year.
Volvo C40: Above target price. I do like the look though.

I suppose I have to figure out if it's worth it to me to pursue the Solterra, or if I should continue driving the Outback for a couple more years. I am hoping for an Outback or Forester EV in the future, but I am thinking that people need to support this technology to show that there's enough interested to dedicate resources to developing the EV versions of the regular fleet.

Your thoughts?

While more of an informal overview of your analysis than an in-depth comparison, I like your reasoning. I was really excited about getting a Solterra, but I’ve decided to wait due to two primary factors: price with the features I want (Limited Edition), and I really want to have a universal-use vehicle to replace my 2015 CrossTrek. I believe the Solterra would knock it out of the park with local commuting, but I’m going to wait until the CCS charging infrastructure in Ohio/Indiana/Kentucky/etc. is a lot more robust so that I can feel comfortable using an EV for longer trips.

 

[R P]

Yes, for you guys, a short tripper or commute car like the Solterra fits your needs. But value wise, there are better choices (eg Ioniq 5) for what you would pay. Unless you also want to use it off-road, then it is your best choice at this time.

Another consideration is that in 2 years there are going to be a lot more better choices, esp with charging.

Most Of The EV Industry To Shift To 800 Volts By 2025, Report Says

Out of the wide range of EVs available today, most run on 400 volts and only a handful have an 800-volt system, but that could change by 2025.

insideevs.com

 

[PilotEV]

While more of an informal overview of your analysis than an in-depth comparison, I like your reasoning. I was really excited about getting a Solterra, but I’ve decided to wait due to two primary factors: price with the features I want (Limited Edition), and I really want to have a universal-use vehicle to replace my 2015 CrossTrek. I believe the Solterra would knock it out of the park with local commuting, but I’m going to wait until the CCS charging infrastructure in Ohio/Indiana/Kentucky/etc. is a lot more robust so that I can feel comfortable using an EV for longer trips.

Yes, I forgot to mention, we're a two-car household. My wife has a 3-row SUV that we use nearly exclusively for any and all vacation trips due to the larger cargo capacity without impacting the second row where the kids would sit. I only bring down my car when I know I'll be going to/from work so I don't leave her without a car.

The DCFC network around here seems to be pretty good now that EA is up and running. Between EVGo and EA, I have my bases covered. If we were taking a trip to visit family out in PA for example, we'd just take her car at this point anyway.

I like the Crosstrek very much - especially the hybrid. If I could get the Crosstrek Hybrid in Premium Trim rather than a Limited-comparable trim, I likely would have done that. The ~20ish miles of electric range is enough for nearly all of my commute, and would help with the small jogs around town. My reasoning to not get the Crosstrek Hybrid was purely financial; it was tough to justify nearly $38,000 for that car when I could spend a slight amount more (Solterra EV is around that after tax credit for the Premium trim)...

If the Crosstrek could offer close to a 40 mile electric range as the Rav4 Prime does, I think you'd see much more adoption. But - the Crosstrek PHEV is also slapped together into the ICE skin. The weird configuration and placement of batteries and leaving the non-usable spare tire well is an interesting design concept. I would have suggested, at least, having the spare tire well filled with something useful (more batteries??)

Yes, for you guys, a short tripper or commute car like the Solterra fits your needs. But value wise, there are better choices (eg Ioniq 5) for what you would pay. Unless you also want to use it off-road, then it is your best choice at this time.

Another consideration is that in 2 years there are going to be a lot more better choices, esp with charging.

Most Of The EV Industry To Shift To 800 Volts By 2025, Report Says

Out of the wide range of EVs available today, most run on 400 volts and only a handful have an 800-volt system, but that could change by 2025.

insideevs.com

The problem I have with your value proposition is that there is NOBODY around here selling an Ioniq 5 or EV6 at MSRP. They are asking for several thousand above MSRP, which kind of negates the selling point.

For example, I priced out my most preferable trim:

Solterra Limited - Galactic Black - $49720 including destination
Hyundai Ioniq 5 - Phantom Black - AWD Option - $50995 including destination

So, the Subaru about $1200 less expensive, and arguably just as well if not better equipped than the Ioniq 5. The Ioniq will go about 30 more miles on paper. The Ioniq has power folding mirrors in the SEL model, but the Subaru has the HK Premium Sound.

Again, if you are road tripping, sure, the faster charging makes sense. But that would be trying to sell someone like me a pickup truck or a sportscar. That's not what I'm after, it's not a priority.

And, if you had the Ioniq 5 sell for MSRP+5000, that would push it to $56k - well outside of my price target, even after tax credits.

 

[192]

For your needs an EV sounds perfect. And I think there is a much higher likelihood of the L3 charger being unavailable for some reason compared to your home EVSE. Also you have an ICE car for road trips if needed.

If I were in your position that would be my choice also, by my situation and needs are different, which is why I chose to cancel my reservation and wait some more.

 

[jg.]

I've been following the Chevy Equinox EV recently but thinking it may be too small and the Blazer EV might be the sweet spot. Unfortunately, on their current models the low starting price evaporates quickly and you end up with an Audi-like pricing scheme for anything that would be an enjoyable vehicle to own for years. I had GM cars much of my life (even worked at the GM HQ for a while) but switched over to Jeep primarily because I was spending a lot of time off-road and and needed something good in the snow (for some reason GM historically just avoids making all wheel drive cars). Stellantis should be coming out with a Jeep Compass-like EV before too long (I would think Bolt EUV-ish size) and maybe something larger in the following years. Until then the Grand Cherokee 4xe seems like their best option, but is pretty high priced (aside from not being fully electric) which makes me financially circle back to the Solterra.

 

[R P]

The problem I have with your value proposition is that there is NOBODY around here selling an Ioniq 5 or EV6 at MSRP. They are asking for several thousand above MSRP, which kind of negates the selling point.

For example, I priced out my most preferable trim:

Solterra Limited - Galactic Black - $49720 including destination
Hyundai Ioniq 5 - Phantom Black - AWD Option - $50995 including destination

So, the Subaru about $1200 less expensive, and arguably just as well if not better equipped than the Ioniq 5. The Ioniq will go about 30 more miles on paper. The Ioniq has power folding mirrors in the SEL model, but the Subaru has the HK Premium Sound.

Again, if you are road tripping, sure, the faster charging makes sense. But that would be trying to sell someone like me a pickup truck or a sportscar. That's not what I'm after, it's not a priority.

And, if you had the Ioniq 5 sell for MSRP+5000, that would push it to $56k - well outside of my price target, even after tax credits.

Yes, good points. In Canada, we don't have ADMs, but availability of new EVs is almost nil at this time. I have 3 pre-orders in for the Ioniq 5. Was first told to likely expect it late 22 or early 23. Now they are saying that 23 is already sold out, too. And I am still at the pre-order stage (pile of orders stacked up at the dealer). So I am not very optimistic about getting that car before 2024.

The Solterra/bZ4X will also be in high demand, but I do expect it to be available long before the Ioniq 5. I hope I am right.

 

[poodlemaster]

Its pretty simple for me. There is nothing else I can replace my Suzuki Samurai with. A Solterra is not as capable off road, but its good enough to get almost all the places I want to go. There is no other EV this capable, with some of the EV trucks possibly being a bit better, but so heavy they are really useless out back. The Solterra at 4000 lbs in pretty heavy already, but an F150 Lightning is 6500 lbs.

I will buy a Solterra. I am 28 on a 24 place list at my dealer, but he is sure I( will get a shot, as people are cancelling already.

 

[md.]

Much of my calculation is that the Solterra is something that I can get right now and at MSRP. (And by right now, I mean hopefully in four months.) I test drove a EV6 GT-Line and it was amazing! I wouldn't get the GT-Line, but even the lower trim levels aren't arriving and the ones that do have a $6,500 markup when I checked.

 

[PilotEV]

I think the reason for my insistence on buying what appears to be an inferior product regarding range and charging speed is:

1. Charging curve/speed can be improved via update at some point in the future
2. Tech is always getting better, so if you wait and wait, you'll still be riding a horse-and-buggy
3. I am fairly certain as gasoline/diesel supply winds down with the global transition to renewables, the demand will fluctuate, but think that gasoline will probably hit $5 within the next year or two, possible $7-10 in 5 years.
4. As gasoline/diesel costs increase, there will be less reason for governments to provide a tax incentive - because there is a tangible "money in my pocket" return if petroleum fuels are that expensive. Why subsidize the purchase if the fuel costs $5000 a year?
5. We'll probably also see an EV tax at some point built into state registrations, simply because they're going to lose out on gasoline tax revenue which is in turn used for roadway maintenance and improvements.
6. I personally don't intend to DCFC all that often, especially on road trips when time is of the essence. If I need to DCFC, it will be planned for and done on a lunch break at work - where I'll have 45 minutes out of my hour lunch to sit there and let it charge up, without a hurry.

 

[bobleon39540]

I think the reason for my insistence on buying what appears to be an inferior product regarding range and charging speed is:

1. Charging curve/speed can be improved via update at some point in the future
2. Tech is always getting better, so if you wait and wait, you'll still be riding a horse-and-buggy
3. I am fairly certain as gasoline/diesel supply winds down with the global transition to renewables, the demand will fluctuate, but think that gasoline will probably hit $5 within the next year or two, possible $7-10 in 5 years.
4. As gasoline/diesel costs increase, there will be less reason for governments to provide a tax incentive - because there is a tangible "money in my pocket" return if petroleum fuels are that expensive. Why subsidize the purchase if the fuel costs $5000 a year?
5. We'll probably also see an EV tax at some point built into state registrations, simply because they're going to lose out on gasoline tax revenue which is in turn used for roadway maintenance and improvements.

Pennsylvania's gas tax is 77 cents / gal

 

[PilotEV]

Pennsylvania's gas tax is 77 cents / gal

For reference, 600 gallons of fuel x 77 cents = $462 per year in tax.

 

[JayEM]

For reference, 600 gallons of fuel x 77 cents = $462 per year in tax.

I don't mind so much that in IL my EV plate sticker renewal is $100/year over the ICE price. Some called it an EV tax, but I still want the roads to be maintained properly.

 

[Crumas]

Pennsylvania's gas tax is 77 cents / gal

Is that the PA taxes or all taxes on a gallon of gasoline? In Ohio the state charges about 38 cents/gal.

 

[bobleon39540]

Is that the PA taxes or all taxes on a gallon of gasoline? In Ohio the state charges about 38 cents/gal.

Pa taxes Is Pennsylvania gas tax revenue going where it should?

 

[Crumas]

Pa taxes Is Pennsylvania gas tax revenue going where it should?

Wow… 3rd highest gasoline taxes in the country and still running an $8+ b shortfall.

 

[voxel]

The right answer is the RAV4 Prime. The wrong answer is also the RAV4 Prime which is basically unobtainable at this point. 302hp AWD with 42 miles of EV range and 500+ miles of gas range (at 35-38mpg). It would suit 80% of the population.

For pure EVs… I suggest the XC40 Recharge or Ioniq 5. The latter is more wagon/sedan than SUV but should be fine. EV6 and Mach-E tend to be hot hatches. There are compromises. Model Y is great but insanely expensive and might as well be Prime 2.0 with the long waits.

 

[SAL]

Have anyone considered Vinfast? VF8 is smaller 2 rows SUV, but if you need a 3 rows SUV VF9 looks good. The prices have not been announced. It will be quite a bit higher than Solterra, even for the base VF8, I think. And with the battery leasing cost, the operating cost is also going to be higher.

VinFast

vinfastauto.us

 

[326]

The right answer is the RAV4 Prime. The wrong answer is also the RAV4 Prime which is basically unobtainable at this point. 302hp AWD with 42 miles of EV range and 500+ miles of gas range (at 35-38mpg). It would suit 80% of the population.

For pure EVs… I suggest the XC40 Recharge or Ioniq 5. The latter is more wagon/sedan than SUV but should be fine. EV6 and Mach-E tend to be hot hatches. There are compromises. Model Y is great but insanely expensive and might as well be Prime 2.0 with the long waits.

I want the RAV4 Prime. I love the EV range. Perfect for my commute with the safety net of ICE. It's just that they are so hard to find and dealer ADMs are everywhere. I'm happy waiting until August for a Solterra with no ADM. My dealer said August but it's most likely going to be delayed. I saw the post about August 31 still being August.