[Reknid]

Subaru has provided a little hope that they'll provide us with some critical info.

"Love is now electric.
An important announcement is coming soon.
Within the next few weeks, pricing will be announced on the 2023 Subaru Solterra, our first zero-emissions all-electric SUV. Once pricing is announced, you will have up to 30 days to work with your retailer to secure your Solterra.

Get more details on the all-new Subaru Solterra »

There are many benefits to driving a Subaru EV including saving the environment and saving money on gas. We’ve even partnered with EVgo to help you access charging stations to keep you moving."

Fun!

 

[192]

Last article I read had the base price at $45k, which is in no way worth it (in my opinion). I know most everything else is more expensive, especially Tesla's, but everything is also better. I'm at 95% chance of canceling my reservation when pricing comes out.

I know the salesperson will probably say "but you get $10k off with state and federal tax credits". Not interested in them justifying a hefty price by taxpayer-funded incentives. I will continue to drive my Impreza, and in 5 years when all the EV drivetrains are 800V, the range has doubled, the battery weight has halved, the charging infrastructure is significantly improved, and prices are cheaper - then I'll buy an EV.

 

[bob E]

Last article I read had the base price at $45k, which is in no way worth it (in my opinion). I know most everything else is more expensive, especially Tesla's, but everything is also better. I'm at 95% chance of canceling my reservation when pricing comes out.

I know the salesperson will probably say "but you get $10k off with state and federal tax credits". Not interested in them justifying a hefty price by taxpayer-funded incentives. I will continue to drive my Impreza, and in 5 years when all the EV drivetrains are 800V, the range has doubled, the battery weight has halved, the charging infrastructure is significantly improved, and prices are cheaper - then I'll buy an EV.

I've seen a variety of estimates of the base price, from $37k to $45k. You may get $10k off, but I'll only get $7k off. (I'll be lucky if the next Texas legislative session doesn't penalize me with a $2k yearly surcharge for boycotting fossil fuels.)

It'd be a shame if, as a result of Solterra pricing, lots of folks cancelled their reservations. Subaru has said that they are going to use the popularity of the Solterra to determine how much they invest in BEV cars. With lots of cancellations, they might change their mind about the 2022 WRX STI and the XT Wilderness Forester. . (With dismal sales in the domestic Japanese market, they just had another reorg.)

I got an estimate from carmax on the value of my Impreza: $24k. A little over a year ago, Subaru gave me a "guaranteed" price of $15k. With a new Impreza generation coming out next year, now is probably a good time to sell a used Impreza. Another reason to do so is the increasing prevalence of E15 gasoline.

 

[Bam]

With lots of cancellations, they might change their mind about the 2022 WRX STI and the XT Wilderness Forester. . (With dismal sales in the domestic Japanese market, they just had another reorg.)

if they released an xt wilderness forester I would change my solterra reservation to that on monday

 

[192]

I got an estimate from carmax on the value of my Impreza: $24k. A little over a year ago, Subaru gave me a "guaranteed" price of $15k. With a new Impreza generation coming out next year, now is probably a good time to sell a used Impreza. Another reason to do so is the increasing prevalence of E15 gasoline.

What year is your Impreza? The last Carvana price (historically the highest for me) I got a few weeks ago was $20k for my 2015 with 42k miles. I was hoping to come out nearly even with a ~$37k Solterra price minus tax credits minus Impreza sale to Carvana (would try open market first).

Regardless, if I were to cancel, I'm sure there is a long line of people to take my place. It seems the Pandemic and supply chain issues has spiked the public's fear level to the point most people have turned into suckers. Does not bode well for all of us.

 

[PilotEV]

My target price is between $35-37.5k after tax credit. Above that and I will consider a pass. But, my Outback XT uses about $3k in fuel a year. That’s $30k in fuel over my expected 10 year ownership. Maybe I will spring for $40k after all.

 

[bob E]

What year is your Impreza? The last Carvana price (historically the highest for me) I got a few weeks ago was $20k for my 2015 with 42k miles. I was hoping to come out nearly even with a ~$37k Solterra price minus tax credits minus Impreza sale to Carvana (would try open market first).

Regardless, if I were to cancel, I'm sure there is a long line of people to take my place. It seems the Pandemic and supply chain issues has spiked the public's fear level to the point most people have turned into suckers. Does not bode well for all of us.

I have a 2017 Limited Impreza with 17k miles on it. I have two Subaru vehicles. Between them, I'll put at most a total of 1500 miles on them. (I generally only drive my cars when I need to pick up cat litter, bicycling the rest of the time.) So, I don't really need a EV. But I'd really Love (is electric) to give the finger to the ethanol producing Iowa farmers and the Texas politicians who think that fossil fuel is fantastic. I intend to send them postcards of me, doing just that, when I have a Solterra.

I was at my dealer (Ewing Subaru) today getting a state inspection, and a salesman confirmed that there would be no additional dealer markup.

I agree that if I forfeited my reservation, there would be someone else to take my place. But, I know some folks who could benefit from my Impreza; it is just a question of deciding whom to give it away to. (With the US government $30T in debt, those Boomers who can afford to do so should pass on their windfall to those who are in dire straights. Expecting the same of Bezos, Musk, et al, is a hopeless wish.)

 

[192]

My target price is between $35-37.5k after tax credit. Above that and I will consider a pass. But, my Outback XT uses about $3k in fuel a year. That’s $30k in fuel over my expected 10 year ownership. Maybe I will spring for $40k after all.

The electricity to charge an EV typically isn't free, so don't forget to subtract that from your savings. In almost every case it should be cheaper to charge, but I've seen some outrageous kWh fees at charging stations (in articles about EV's and charging stations).

A random Google search pulled up this article, says home charging is cheapest and Level 3 charging can be as high as 60 cents per kWh, which for me would be about 6x the cost of home charging.

The Average Costs of using Car Charging Stations - Mach 1 Services

The new trend is using chargeable cars due to their effectiveness in causing less pollution and for their convenience. Using an electric vehicle gives you multiple advantages over those using gas because a gas vehicle has fewer moving parts than a gasoline-powered car meaning that...

www.mach1services.com

 

[PilotEV]

The electricity to charge an EV typically isn't free, so don't forget to subtract that from your savings. In almost every case it should be cheaper to charge, but I've seen some outrageous kWh fees at charging stations (in articles about EV's and charging stations).

A random Google search pulled up this article, says home charging is cheapest and Level 3 charging can be as high as 60 cents per kWh, which for me would be about 6x the cost of home charging.

The Average Costs of using Car Charging Stations - Mach 1 Services

The new trend is using chargeable cars due to their effectiveness in causing less pollution and for their convenience. Using an electric vehicle gives you multiple advantages over those using gas because a gas vehicle has fewer moving parts than a gasoline-powered car meaning that...

www.mach1services.com

Yes, I pay around 0.17 per kWh. It’s considerably cheaper. I would estimate around 5-6 cents per mile compared to the 25 cents per mile with gasoline.

 

[JayEM]

The electricity to charge an EV typically isn't free, so don't forget to subtract that from your savings. In almost every case it should be cheaper to charge, but I've seen some outrageous kWh fees at charging stations (in articles about EV's and charging stations).

A random Google search pulled up this article, says home charging is cheapest and Level 3 charging can be as high as 60 cents per kWh, which for me would be about 6x the cost of home charging.

The Average Costs of using Car Charging Stations - Mach 1 Services

The new trend is using chargeable cars due to their effectiveness in causing less pollution and for their convenience. Using an electric vehicle gives you multiple advantages over those using gas because a gas vehicle has fewer moving parts than a gasoline-powered car meaning that...

www.mach1services.com

If one's not able to charge at home (and the EV one's considering doesn't come with free charging), one's likely not a good candidate for an EV at this time.

My at-home price (over the past 5+ years) has been about $0.11/kWh. For public charging, most of it DC and not free, the average price has been around $0.38/kWh (that's low, considering that E-A charges $0.43/kWh in my state). Fortunately, paid public charging accounts for only 20% of my "refueling" cost, so my average cost per mile is just 3.3 cents/mile. By comparison, over the same period, our Outbacks (2017 2.5 for first 4 years, then 2021 XT) have cost around 9.5 cents/mile. Compared to driving the Outback, when driving the EV we're saving "enough", but we wouldn't be saving anything at 38 cents/kWh.

 

[PilotEV]

Is that with the monthly passes? EVGo is slower and about the same cost as EA. With the $7 pass the cost drops to something like $0.28 per minute. I think EA at best is $0.30 per kWh for this area. Odd that one is time and other is by kWh. Anyway, seems like the EVGo ones on the service areas here are capped at 50 kWh. I suppose it’s better than going out of my way to another site. The EA ones are all 150k.

 

[JayEM]

Is that with the monthly passes? EVGo is slower and about the same cost as EA. With the $7 pass the cost drops to something like $0.28 per minute. I think EA at best is $0.30 per kWh for this area. Odd that one is time and other is by kWh. Anyway, seems like the EVGo ones on the service areas here are capped at 50 kWh. I suppose it’s better than going out of my way to another site. The EA ones are all 150k.

I don't use E-A enough to justify a monthly plan. With a $4/month plan the /kWh price would be 31 cents in IL (some states don't allow billing by the kWh). On most of my trips when I could use it, it's more convenient (and less expensive) to use ChargePoint.

In my very limited experience with EVgo (2 sessions), their price was much higher (55-61 cents/kWh), but I think that was because it was billed per minute and the charge rate was low at the times I used it.

I don't currently need to search for higher than 50kW stations - my (current) car maxes out at 50 (which is a drag - even 100kW would be an improvement).

 

[PilotEV]

Yeah, I hear you. I am hoping Toyota/Subaru’s “gamble” with topping off at 100 kW DCFC rate to preserve the battery pack and more longevity pays off. I will occasionally need to DCFC in summer months when my commute changes from 10-15 miles one way to 60 one way. I will be able to L1 charge overnight but that won’t be enough to replenish, so I can do DCFC on one leg of my trip every couple of runs or run out on my lunch hour - the EA network is about 4 miles from my job. Even plugging in for 30 minutes should yield enough of a charge to get me another round trip.

 

[JayEM]

Yeah, I hear you. I am hoping Toyota/Subaru’s “gamble” with topping off at 100 kW DCFC rate to preserve the battery pack and more longevity pays off.

I'm pretty sure that 100 kW figure that's been circulating is incorrect, there have been many credible mentions of 150 kW for both Solterra and bZ4X.

In any case, what matters most is the shape of the charging curve, not just the peak rate. I'm hoping when pricing is announced in "the next few weeks" SoA also provides more detail on the 10-80% charging time and the nature of the "agreement" with EVgo.

 

[192]

I'm pretty sure that 100 kW figure that's been circulating is incorrect, there have been many credible mentions of 150 kW for both Solterra and bZ4X.

I keep hearing that, and it's certainly gotten back to Subaru by now (who should also be monitoring forums for interest, discussions, and misinformation). If it's not correct I wish they'd come out with the actual specs and be done with it.

 

[JayEM]

The New York Auto Show begins April 15. Subaru of America often makes major launches/announcements at/before that show. I'm (half) expecting they'll put out a press release with more tech details and pricing just before that show.... So maybe in the next 11 days....?

 

[StevenH]

I'm pretty sure that 100 kW figure that's been circulating is incorrect, there have been many credible mentions of 150 kW for both Solterra and bZ4X.

In any case, what matters most is the shape of the charging curve, not just the peak rate. I'm hoping when pricing is announced in "the next few weeks" SoA also provides more detail on the 10-80% charging time and the nature of the "agreement" with EVgo.

I haven't seen any credible mentions about the U.S. spec Solterra having 150 KW DC charging. It first concerned me when, during the L.A. Auto Show unveil, they said "charges in under an hour." I thought, "it bloody well better, and faster than that!" For a touring trim car to charge 1 hour for every 2 hours of driving on road trips (touring), something is amiss. I'm holding out hope that it's just another example of conservative specs, like the 0-60 time we all thought was 7.4 sec, and it turned out to be 6.2 sec real world. I'm just wondering if any real world range and charging tests will be published before we reservationists are required to ink a deal.

 

[JayEM]

I haven't seen any credible mentions about the U.S. spec Solterra having 150 KW DC charging. It first concerned me when, during the L.A. Auto Show unveil, they said "charges in under an hour." I thought, "it bloody well better, and faster than that!" For a touring trim car to charge 1 hour for every 2 hours of driving on road trips (touring), something is amiss. I'm holding out hope that it's just another example of conservative specs, like the 0-60 time we all thought was 7.4 sec, and it turned out to be 6.2 sec real world. I'm just wondering if any real world range and charging tests will be published before we reservationists are required to ink a deal.

I wasn't referring to mentions of the US specs for the Solterra. It was Japanese and Euro Solterra specs, and US specs for the bZ4X. I see no reason why the US version Subaru would be any different from the Japanese/Euro ones, or the US bZ4X.

 

[StevenH]

I wasn't referring to mentions of the US specs for the Solterra. It was Japanese and Euro Solterra specs, and US specs for the bZ4X. I see no reason why the US version Subaru would be any different from the Japanese/Euro ones, or the US bZ4X.

Just curious, who mentioned the U.S. spec bZ4X has 150 KW DC fast charging?

 

[bob E]

Just curious, who mentioned the U.S. spec bZ4X has 150 KW DC fast charging?

Toyota does:

Details of All-New bZ4X BEV Announced | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

Toyota has announced the details of bZ4X, its all-new model BEV.

global.toyota

"Compatible with high-output chargers worldwide (compatible with 150 kW direct current quick charging; capable of 80% charge in 30 minutes)"

(bold emphasis mine)