[yalla]

As we all know, it handles ice and snow perfectly!

Elbil24.no published a test today, where the bz4x took a superior win over Model Y, ID4.GTX and Volvo Xc40 on winter roads.
All cars where mounted with exactly the same tires (last generation Nokian Hakapelliita R5), the bz4x stopped more then three car lenghts before the MY and ID4, it also crushed them in the acceleration tests, even tough it had the smallest engine of them all.

Best in acceleration tests
To reveal the result first and last, it was the Toyota bZ4X that clawed its way into the ground in the best way in the acceleration tests, and by a very good margin. It broke away from the field immediately, and even when the cars picked up speed it kept away. This despite the fact that in terms of engine it is the weakest wagon in the pack. The grip was so noticeably better that it was felt immediately, even without doing the measurement tests. After many repetitions, change of track, change of driver and all other variables, it was quite obvious what the rest of the field would look like too. Tesla Model Y and VW ID.4 took the next two places. There was very little difference between these, but the common denominator was that they were both thoroughly parked by bZ4X.

Best in the brake tests
Again, there were three cars that had relatively similar performances. It separated about one car length from the car that came second (Volvo XC40), down to the ID.4 and Tesla Model Y - which in practice stopped in the same place.
However, the fourth car stopped a full two car lengths further behind the XC40, which shows that the electronics and systems do a better job of stopping the roughly two tonnes these cars weigh.
It probably goes without saying that several car lengths can be the difference between life and death, or at least much less damage, whether to people, animals or material. And the winner? The Toyota bZ4X walks away with the victory here as well.

A good car is much more than just range and charging. It is shown to be beneficial in this test."

Unfortunately it is behind a paywall, so not able to read complete article:


Here is an image from the brake test:

 

[Ducatista]

Hello @yalla can you get confirmation on this?

this is from a Norwegian Instagram account (Nybiltester).

I like everything I am reading. However, I wish it also said improve the charging curve (in all temperatures) from 0-80%. I am not really concerned with 80-100%.

 

[R P]

Yes, it is 0-80% that needs charging improvement. Don't care about 80-100.

 

[JayEM]

Bearing in mind that the Euro market cars already have a better charging curve than the North American AWD vehicles.

 

[yalla]

Hello @yalla can you get confirmation on this?
this is from a Norwegian Instagram account (Nybiltester).

I like everything I am reading. However, I wish it also said improve the charging curve (in all temperatures) from 0-80%. I am not really concerned with 80-100%.

This change was confirmed by Toyota Norway yesterday! I have also received information from Subaru, that they will release official information this week!
Toyota will start implementing the change in May. When I receive official information from Subaru, I can share it!

Toyota also mentioned in an interview that they where still investigating ways to improve charging and consumption, and this may update was the first step. More updates will propably come

Dette blir endringene på bZ4X

Toyota setter umiddelbart i gang med å rette opp inntrykket av bZ4X. Dette gjøres.

www-motor-no.translate.goog

Toyotas rekkevidde-trøbbel: Slik vil de rydde opp

Bilene må inn til forhandler.

www-tv2-no.translate.goog

Toyota relanserer bZ4X: Her er alle endringene

Flere punkter endres, men først må bilene få ny programvare.

www-elbil24-no.translate.goog

Toyota's information manager, Espen Olsen, emphasizes that they are not finished with this. They are still working on finding more ways to improve range, increase capacity for fast charging and reduce consumption.

• Is there talk of hardware changes, too?
• We work in several areas - also on hardware. But we can't say anything about that for now. In the meantime, these software updates are to be carried out.
• The changes that are coming now don't give better reach, do they?
• No, you won't get further if you drive completely empty. But you will get a more precise message about actual range and consumption.

 

[Ducatista]

This change was confirmed by Toyota Norway yesterday! I have also received information from Subaru, that they will release official information this week!
Toyota will start implementing the change in May. When I receive official information from Subaru, I can share it!

Toyota also mentioned in an interview that they where still investigating ways to improve charging and consumption, and this may update was the first step. More updates will propably come

Dette blir endringene på bZ4X

Toyota setter umiddelbart i gang med å rette opp inntrykket av bZ4X. Dette gjøres.

www-motor-no.translate.goog

Toyotas rekkevidde-trøbbel: Slik vil de rydde opp

Bilene må inn til forhandler.

www-tv2-no.translate.goog

Toyota relanserer bZ4X: Her er alle endringene

Flere punkter endres, men først må bilene få ny programvare.

www-elbil24-no.translate.goog

Toyota case - Toyota relaunches bZ4X: Here are all the changes (elbil24.no)

The changes Toyota has said it will implement can be changed through software. Subaru, for its part, has been in Norway to test features with regard to preheating the battery to prepare it for charging in cold climates.

This feature cannot be attributed to existing cars, and may only be found in the cars from later productions.

Boooooo

 

[B.Wilkins_85]

This feature cannot be attributed to existing cars, and may only be found in the cars from later productions.

And this, if true, will be the final nail in the coffin for our vehicles.

As for resale value; as for long-term usability; as for customer relations; as for Toyota/Subaru’s reputation in the increasingly competitive EV space.

Without battery preheating—for which the Solterra/BZ4X apparently already possesses most or all of the necessary hardware, including a heat pump and battery heater—it seems highly unlikely that our vehicles (in anything but perfect weather conditions) will ever be able to charge any faster than a 15-year-old Nissan Leaf, severely hampering their usability. Actually, I shouldn't impugn the old Leaf; based on charging speeds shared by users here thus far, I think a first generation Leaf actually charges quite a bit faster than our cars do, with our apparently enfeebled CATL battery packs.

I'd argue that a corporate response such as this would be practically akin to a manufacturer selling a new model "1-ton" pick-up truck which customers soon discover—hobbled by some production error—can only haul 1/2 a ton; and then, addressing only the production error, the manufacturer begins producing vehicles that can actually haul 1-ton as originally promised, but makes no attempt to fix the extant vehicles, hanging the original customers out to dry.

 

[FelineFreddie]

I smell a class action lawsuit coming…

 

[Ducatista]

What I don’t understand is this, CATL makes excellent batteries found in tons of vehicles including Tesla’s. I get it might not be the same cells as the ones used in Tesla’s. But the issue with the charging has to be Toyota/Subaru and no the pack. They must be throttling them so much for longevity/reliability since they are unsure of the life due to the lack of testing with them. I highly doubt it’s just a really crappy CATL pack. Toyota can easily resolve this issue I believe if they ease up the programming restricting the charging speeds in various temps.

as far as pre-conditioning. The hardware problem may simply be that the onboard battery heater just can’t get hot enough to meaningfully heat the pack enough. Perhaps the heat pump isn’t tied into the battery heating capabilities at all and they are solely relying on a basic resistive heater for this?

 

[B.Wilkins_85]

What I don’t understand is this, CATL makes excellent batteries found in tons of vehicles including Tesla’s

Indeed; this is part of what is so baffling in all of this. Did they buy some factory reject/fire-sale packs? Or did they simply rush them into production without testing and calibrating the charging curve?

as far as pre-conditioning. The hardware problem may simply be that the onboard battery heater just can’t get hot enough to meaningfully heat the pack enough. Perhaps the heat pump isn’t tied into the battery heating capabilities at all and they are solely relying on a basic resistive heater for this?

Perhaps. But if they cannot resolve the fundamental charging issues with software updates alone (i.e., by addressing the charging curve) then—if these companies care at all about their reputation and future sales-potential in the BEV space, and about their hard-earned reputations for customer service—they're going to have to figure out how to modify or add to the existing the hardware [retroactively] to make battery pre-conditioning viable.

As it currently stands, in real world conditions, our cars seem incapable of actually "fast charging" at all. The speeds we're seeing them charge at are akin to the speeds offered optionally in some competitor's vehicles via Level 2 charging. Since the Solterra/BZ4X's onboard AC charger is similarly constrained (its onboard 6.6 kW charger is the same speed as was found on GM's EV-1, originally designed in the late 1980's, and much slower than most current competitors), efficient DC fast-charging then becomes all the more critical. I.e., one cannot recharge these cars at a Level-2 parking lot charger while out shopping and obtain any reasonable gain of range via that method in such a time period.

Also, since the Solterra/BZ4X's range is similarly proving to be so much less than promised (to stick with the EV-1 analogy, its real-world range has commonly been shown to be less than that of a 1990's-era EV-1 with NiMH batteries...), the painfully-slow charging is proving to be a double-whammy in terms of the vehicle's actual usability.

Short range + painfully slow charging = [rightfully] angry customers...awaiting a fix, or consulting a lawyer.

 

[JayEM]

I guess it all comes down to what one was expecting. The people most put out by the range/charging curve issues are most likely the people who chose not to buy this vehicle. That's bad for the manufacturers, because that means they can't sell as many as they might want to, or can't sell them for as high a price as they would like.

For the people who went into this ownership experience with their eyes open, knowing what they were getting, and knowing that it met 95-99% of their needs, the possible enhancements are nice but unlikely to have much impact on their ownership expense/use case.

Caveat emptor. Not everyone needs a 400 mile EV with 300 kW fast charging.

 

[R P]

Yup, can't say people were not warned that this is not a trip car.

 

[Marek Barinka]

I had feeling "It is not trip car, but in worst case scenario it will be somehow doable" (20 - 80 in under an hour or how was it).
But now we can see that due to missing precondition it is not "somehow doable" in winter.
At least that is my understanding and I can imagine why people are disappointed.

 

[R P]

We are disappointed because fast charging is even slower than we expected, knowing that it is not a trip car. We are hoping that Toyota will improve that. My Kona EV didn't have pre-conditioning, but it DC charged much faster than my Solterra. I think Toyota came out being a little too conservative with their charging algorithm.

 

[Ducatista]

We are disappointed because fast charging is even slower than we expected, knowing that it is not a trip car. We are hoping that Toyota will improve that. My Kona EV didn't have pre-conditioning, but it DC charged much faster than my Solterra. I think Toyota came out being a little too conservative with their charging algorithm.

Yeah I agree with this. Subaru/Toyota promised "low charge to 80% in under 60 mins" (in ideal conidtions). However, the problem is that what people are actually seeing (even when its not really that cold, 40-50 deg F), is "low charge to 80% in eternity"

 

[FelineFreddie]

I really like my Solterra, and it serves my needs well, and I’m very satisfied with the vehicle.

Having said that, I can also see how others might want to see something closely approach the “fast charge rate” they were sold, and at some point I suspect Toyota/Subaru is going to have to demonstrate exactly what the “ideal conditions” are in order to get that promised rate.

Theres a certain implied guarantee in saying something like “20 to 80% charge in an hour”, and unless the exact conditions are laid out (and if those conditions aren’t able to be met in the real world environment), the assumption is those conditions can be met fairly easily. Whether or not that gets translated into a legally binding expectation is another thing, but implied guarantees get litigated all the time, and often the plaintiffs win those cases.

 

[Radross]

Yup, can't say people were not warned that this is not a trip car.

I would contend that the average person considering this vehicle has not been warned about these issues. Toyota/Subaru officially still claim 222 mile range (with the caveat that actual range may vary). My SA claims 150 kW DCFC capability (he is mistaken), and Toyota/Subaru claim 100 kW. Unless someone reads every post of every thread in this or another online forum or read every news article about the vehicle (many of us here probably do), they would not know that these claims are fantasies.

 

[R P]

I would contend that the average person considering this vehicle has not been warned about these issues. Toyota/Subaru officially still claim 222 mile range (with the caveat that actual range may vary). My SA claims 150 kW DCFC capability (he is mistaken), and Toyota/Subaru claim 100 kW. Unless someone reads every post of every thread in this or another online forum or read every news article about the vehicle (many of us here probably do), they would not know that these claims are fantasies.

As I am not worried about the range. All manufacturers give their ideal conditions best range as their spec, which is in summer, and not at highway speeds. Right now it is winter, and all EVs will get considerably less range, just like our Solterra.

But I have been on several cold weather ski trips which incl a lot of uphill (sea level to 5000'), and the range has been exactly or maybe even a bit better than I expected. Will have to see in summer how range is, but would not be surprised to hit the advertised spec.

It is the DC fast charging that is the big issue. I don't care what the peak rate is, but how long it takes to go from 20 - 80%. While it is expected to be lower in cold weather, it is worse than I expected. I am comparing it to my former Kona EV which also had the same 400V architecture (with no pre-heating), and it was significantly faster. That is the one big issue I have with this car at this time. There are rumours that Toyota will be updating the software to charge faster, so will have to see if/when that happen.

For me, it has not been that big an issue, as I do have an ICE car I would use for longer trips. So far, have only been doing 400km round trips for skiing, and while the enroute charge times are a nuisance, I can live with it. I have been using the time to catch on up my magazine reading,.. goes faster then.

 

[JayEM]

I would contend that the average person considering this vehicle has not been warned about these issues. Toyota/Subaru officially still claim 222 mile range (with the caveat that actual range may vary). My SA claims 150 kW DCFC capability (he is mistaken), and Toyota/Subaru claim 100 kW. Unless someone reads every post of every thread in this or another online forum or read every news article about the vehicle (many of us here probably do), they would not know that these claims are fantasies.

You are right, there's a serious deviation between what's being advertised (listed as specifications) and reality. The gap in the projected vs. actual charging rates is the most glaring, IMO. The range figures are closer to reality (in line with other EVs). To think, going into this the initial concern was that the NA AWD models topped out at "just" 100 kW, not 150! If the car would get anywhere close to 100, I think most of us would be a lot less unhappy.

I'm surprised that so far the Solterra cannot match the i3's charging performance, even though that car's rate tops out at only 50 kW. I seldom saw charge rates much below 50, even all the way up to 90+% SOC, and even when it was cold (though, TBH, I didn't use DCFC all that much when it was cold).

 

[poodlemaster]

Its snowing! Finally, and I'll go play in it. I did my math long ago and its pretty well what I expected. I'm 76 the odds are good this will be my last car. I realized back in March of 2022 that with the various incentives and and actual sales tax breaks, that this is the car I should buy for my final years. As I only put maybe 50Km on the car in a day, it was obvious that my 110v socket would be all I would need.

That has turned out to be the case, and my pattern now is about 4 or 5 days of unplugged to get down into the 70Km - 80Km range on the display, then just plugging it in while I'm not using it for maybe 3 days gets me back to 300Km or so. I'm calling that 20% to 80% as I think that's close enough. I have sympathy for you high mileage people but I may never use a DC charger and will only use level 2 chargers occasionally. Anyway I figured that out a year ago and its very nice to see I am right.