[Ducatista]

Do you have a source for that. Personally, I don't trust auto journalist articles.

My Kona spec was 64 kWh, but it was later determined that the actual was 67 kWh, and Hyundai was saving a buffer for future degradation calculations. I believe most manufacturers (if not all) report their spec as usable. Why would Toyota be different?

From all the testing that has been done in Europe, which showed that the stated capacity was not useable and useable was around 64-65. Toyota then confirmed over there that the stated capacity is the gross capacity. I would have to find the Norwegian article again.

 

[R P]

The 23.9 kWh/100mi converts to 2.6 mi/kWh for those of us metrically challenged. That’s about what I have been averaging ”around town” at 55-60 degrees F.

Do you have both ECO drive mode and ECO climate going? I get 22.X around town, depending on how much freeway. Temps here often 10C+ at this time of year. Had 15C (60F) a few days ago. But sometimes it is colder in the morning, near freezing, and I see my consumption going up, esp with short trips, where the heaters don't turn off.

 

[R P]

From all the testing that has been done in Europe, which showed that the stated capacity was not useable and useable was around 64-65. Toyota then confirmed over there that the stated capacity is the gross capacity. I would have to find the Norwegian article again.

I saw that, too, but I don't take that as official gospel. I'll believe it when I hear it from the horse's mouth, ie an offical corporate document, not heresay. Toyota/Subaru specifically publish and advertise their spec capacity as 72.8 kWh, and do not say or imply that is not usable. That is the same as other manufacturers.

 

[WeirdBal]

I saw that, too, but I don't take that as official gospel. I'll believe it when I hear it from the horse's mouth, ie an offical corporate document, not heresay. Toyota/Subaru specifically publish and advertise their spec capacity as 72.8 kWh, and do not say or imply that is not usable. That is the same as other manufacturers.

This article says Toyota engineers confirmed the usable battery is 64 kWh in their reposense to those terrible testing results.

Testene er analysert: Dette sier Toyota til Elbil24 etter rekkevidde-skrell

To måneder har gått. Nå vet vi mye mer om hva Toyota vil foreta seg.

www-elbil24-no.translate.goog

 

[JayEM]

This article says Toyota engineers confirmed the usable battery is 64 kWh in their reposense to those terrible testing results.

Testene er analysert: Dette sier Toyota til Elbil24 etter rekkevidde-skrell

To måneder har gått. Nå vet vi mye mer om hva Toyota vil foreta seg.

www-elbil24-no.translate.goog

Bearing in mind that the battery pack in the Euro Solterras in 71.4 kWh (Panasonic)...

 

[R P]

This article says Toyota engineers confirmed the usable battery is 64 kWh in their reposense to those terrible testing results.

Testene er analysert: Dette sier Toyota til Elbil24 etter rekkevidde-skrell

To måneder har gått. Nå vet vi mye mer om hva Toyota vil foreta seg.

www-elbil24-no.translate.goog

Yes, I saw that article before, too. It may or may not be true. But like I said, it is still heresay, and not what Toyota itself has said in their own official documents, ie specs. I will believe it when I see them state that in their specs and advertising.

 

[R P]

Went by a couple of fast charging stations today, so stopped in to try them out. First at a free (in test mode) Chevron station, and charge rate was 27kW. Then a bit later at a Petro Canada charger, and again top charge rate was 27 kW. I was at about 42% SOC for both of them, and outside air temp was at 12C.

27kW was the rate I was getting at the BC Hydro chargers a couple days ago on my ski trip, but the temps there were below freezing. I did charge before at that same Chevron charger and it was 35kW, but my SOC was lower at 20%.

In any case, the L3 charge rates are definitely very, very poor at this time. Sure hope Toyota gives us a fix soon. Most of my charging will be at home with an L2, but do want to do more trips, ie skiing and hiking, which will be a little further from home.

 

[R P]

Just watched this, and have to say it is the most informative vid yet about charging our CATL batteries that I have seen. In particular, he demonstrates how critical the SOC and battery temp is to charge speed. You have to run it really low to get the best speeds (above 50 kW). Also he verified that at 0% car SOC (0 remaining on the GOM) you still have 10% actual SOC left.

Just a tip on longer youtubes;, I like to set Playback at 1.25 or 1.5 speed.

So, if you aren't afraid of running down to low SOC, you can indeed get higher charging speeds. Not the best news, but it certainly does explain some things. And maybe we can look forward to much faster charging speeds in a few months.

 

[JayEM]

Just watched this, and have to say it is the most informative vid yet about charging our CATL batteries that I have seen. In particular, he demonstrates how critical the SOC and battery temp is to charge speed. You have to run it really low to get the best speeds (above 50 kW). Also he verified that at 0% car SOC (0 remaining on the GOM) you still have 10% actual SOC left.

So, if you aren't afraid of running down to low SOC, you can indeed get higher charging speeds. Not the best news, but it certainly does explain some things. And maybe we can look forward to much faster charging speeds in a few months.

Thanks for sharing that.

Sometimes running that low isn't an option, the fast charger you need to use isn't far enough away (and the next one after that is too far away).

 

[R P]

Thanks for sharing that.

Sometimes running that low isn't an option, the fast charger you need to use isn't far enough away (and the next one after that is too far away).

Yes, absolutely, they still need to fix this.

BTW, the guy, 168, that shared this vid on the bZ4X forum lives in my area, and has the FWD with the Panasonic battery. He leaves comments on Plugshare with his charges and gets really high kW rates, and ridiculously fast charges, like 35 min 10-80%.

Since our CATL battery is not used in Japan, I suspect Toyota did not properly test this battery/car combo.

 

[TheMarc]

[...]
Since our CATL battery is not used in Japan, I suspect Toyota did not properly test this battery/car combo.

What I'm worried about now is for the fixing part, after not having it well tested, well developed.
Everybody's interested in and working on fixing the Toyota BZ4X and the Panasonic battery. What about Subaru, what about the CATL battery? When will there be real "significant" tests and real acknowledgment by Subaru that there is an issue with charging that they need to address?

 

[R P]

What I'm worried about now is for the fixing part, after not having it well tested, well developed.
Everybody's interested in and working on fixing the Toyota BZ4X and the Panasonic battery. What about Subaru, what about the CATL battery? When will there be real "significant" tests and real acknowledgment by Subaru that there is an issue with charging that they need to address?

That vid was a Toyota bZ4X AWD with the CATL battery, so it is not just a Subaru problem. Their Panosonic one used in the FWD works fine and charges super fast.

But yes, Subaru is at the mercy of Toyota with this one. Fortunately for me, not a big issue, as it will not be my trip car, and most of my charging will be at home and at the cabin (solar).

 

[TheMarc]

That vid was a Toyota bZ4X AWD with the CATL battery, so it is not just a Subaru problem. Their Panosonic one used in the FWD works fine and charges super fast.

But yes, Subaru is at the mercy of Toyota with this one. Fortunately for me, not a big issue, as it will not be my trip car, and most of my charging will be at home and at the cabin (solar).

Exactly, I know it's a video of the Toyota. That's my point. I'm just afraid that there will be less focus on Subaru's problems and less on the CATL battery, and I'm worried that the Solterra might be left behind in terms of solutions towards its problems.

 

[Ducatista]

Exactly, I know it's a video of the Toyota. That's my point. I'm just afraid that there will be less focus on Subaru's problems and less on the CATL battery, and I'm worried that the Solterra might be left behind in terms of solutions towards its problems.

I do have a real concern that the current efforts Toyota/Subaru is doing as a result of the Norway tests will only be for non-North American markets since they are all Panasonic batteries. I hope the CATL pack cars gets some attention. Need people like Kyle from Out of Spec, Inside EVs and Tom from State of Charge to creat the publicity needed for Toyota to react the same way I think.

 

[JayEM]

I do have a real concern that the current efforts Toyota/Subaru is doing as a result of the Norway tests will only be for non-North American markets since they are all Panasonic batteries. I hope the CATL pack cars gets some attention. Need people like Kyle from Out of Spec, Inside EVs and Tom from State of Charge to creat the publicity needed for Toyota to react the same way I think.

With so many of Subaru's cars being sold in North America, you'd THINK that there would be attention paid to satisfying this market (but only to the extent Subaru of America/Subaru Global is made aware of the problems).

 

[R P]

Did my first trip yesterday, 400 kms round trip to a ski hill up in the mountains. Elevation change was 5,000' from sea level to ski hill parking lot. Temps in the morning were down to -6C at the mountain. Did two partial charges enroute, in hindsight could have got away with one charge, but didn't want to take a chance. Got home with over 100 kms remaining. Each charge was about 1/2 hour, slow, only got tops 27 kW from the 50 kW BC Hydro charger. But at least it was free.

I initialized the trip consumption at the start, and when I got back home the avg trip consumption was 23.9 kWh/100 kms, so that would indicate a range of about 300 kms which I consider very good given the type of trip. Where I could, I drove up to 110 kph.

On the way up, it was not only cold, but the last 80 kms or so were slush initially and then snow covered. Had a big dump of snow overnight (which made for great ski conditions of course). And it was steep. So I really saw the consumption meter go up and the range dropping quickly during that part of the trip. Of course coming down, it was the opposite, although the net for sure cost extra range.

So I guess, it was about what I expected, and glad to get that behind me. Gives me a good baseline for future trips and where to plan my charging stops.

Did the same ski trip again yesterday with similar conditions with temps, SOC, same chargers, and driving. This time, though, the kW rate was higher, at 34 kW (vs 27 last time) with each charge. I did a final top up charge near home at the free Chevron chargers and again rate was 34 kW. I have no explanation for why the charge rate was higher, given pretty well identical temps and start charging SOCs as last time.

 

[JayEM]

I have no explanation for why the charge rate was higher, given pretty well identical temps and start charging SOCs as last time.

Your car's "more broken in" now?

 

[Rubasu]

My Solterra arrived on Friday at Johnson Subaru in Cary (North Carolina) and I drove it today. When I arrived at the dealer the car was being charged and the charger estimated the range at 307 miles. We unplugged it, opened the two front doors and the car's estimate was 270 miles. We drove it about 20 minutes at 60F on roads with mild inclines and when we returned to the dealer the range was 210 miles. AC was set at 70F and the radio was on.

This was a Premium model with no extras at all. Price sticker was just over $46,000. The car is quiet, very smooth and it handles well but I am not going to buy it. We're a one car family with relatives that live 200 miles away in the North Carolina Smokey Mountains....no way the Solterra could get there without a recharge.

This car is not ready for Prime Time.

 

[R P]

Yes, there are much better trip EVs if that is what you need. Good that you tested it first, and decided not to buy it, and then be very unhappy with it.

 

[Craig]

We have a Subaru Solterra Limited—new in December 2022. We have done two trips now to the same ski area. Stopped to charge at a Level 3 DC charger (BC Hydro). It automatically stopped at 80%, and the readout indicated 178 mile range. Distance to home was 97 miles. We started driving toward home, watching actual mileage traveled and the vehicle range readout. The mileage on the vehicle immediately started reducing faster than actual mileage to the extent that we had to stop again on the way to make it home. This exact thing happened twice on the same route. No heater at all, driving consistent freeway speed before and after. Does anyone have a guess as to what happened here?

They built a shit car. Everyone has the same problem and they have no solution