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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Toyota press release states 150 kW fast charging speed for Bz4x and the Solterra reviews from today are stating 100 kW. 80% charge in about an 1 hour. Significantly slower compared to even the ID4 which is almost ten minutes behind Hyundai/Kia.

Anyone know why the fast charge speed decrease?
 

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I think one reviewer states a spec, the others often plagiarize that, instead of checking/confirming for themselves. My Canadian spec brochure says 150 kW max charge.
Traction battery type: Lithium-ion
Traction battery capacity (kWh): 72.8 kWh
Front eAxle (output) (kW): 80 kW
Rear eAxle (output) (kW): 80 kW
Charger: Level 2 & Level 3 fast charging
Charger: CCS1 Combo type
DC fast charging rate (max.) (kW) 150 kW
Charging cable length (m): 7.5 m
 

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Max kW is not the whole answer. EVs have a charging curve, fast at first and then level off as they approach 80% and really slow down after that. The best measure is how long it takes to charge from 10 to 80%. I have seen everywhere from less than an hour to only 30 min for this car. The latter is from the Japan site, and they give a higher range, too.

Subaru Solterra AWD version:
  • Cruising range (WLTC, Japan standard): about 460 km (286 miles)
  • 71.4 kWh battery
    355 V, liquid cooled
  • dual motor all-wheel drive
    two 80 kW AC synchronous electric motors
  • peak system output of 160 kW
  • AC charging (on-board): 6.6 kW
  • DC fast charging: up to 150 kW (up to 80% in about 30 minutes)
Also, some EVs have a max charge rate that only happens with max regen braking, but a different max for charging. My Kona EV is that way, 100 kW max with regen but only 77 kW max for charging. So until someone gets their hands on one and tests it all out, we really don't know. And oh, they are also temperature dependent to reach max charge. Cold is slow, but not too hot either. Usually around 75F is ideal charging temps.
 

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Wow! I'm nearly broken to hear its max L3 charging rate is 100 KW, and it takes 56 minutes to charge to 80%. I can live with the 222 mi range, since road tripping strategy is to drive about 1 1/2 hours and charge for 15-20 minutes in the sweet spot of the charging curve. But, I'm afraid 100 KW isn't going to provide that ability. I still need to see the real world charging performance and curves, since Subaru has been quite conservative about other specs so far. No one expected 0-60 mph in 6 seconds after hearing 7.4 seconds for so long. And I'm delighted about the comfortable ride and low noise. Scratching my head about the 100 KW charger though. Got me thinking they're cutting corners really tight to hold the price down. May be a deal-breaker, though.
 

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Just remember, unlike ICE cars that you only fill up when near empty, EVs are charged a bit pretty well every time you stop somewhere for a pee or a bite. So it does not cost you as much in time on a trip as you might think. But it does take a little planning. Good news, is that charging stations are usually near other amenities.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Just remember, unlike ICE cars that you only fill up when near empty, EVs are charged a bit pretty well every time you stop somewhere for a pee or a bite. So it does not cost you as much in time on a trip as you might think. But it does take a little planning. Good news, is that charging stations are usually near other amenities.
Sorry but your post makes no sense. ICE is superior for road tripping. You can top any time in a couple of minutes.

I wish battery tech was further along but let’s not kid ourselves….
 

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Sorry but your post makes no sense. ICE is superior for road tripping. You can top any time in a couple of minutes.

I wish battery tech was further along but let’s not kid ourselves….
What exactly is it that doesn't make sense to you? I didn't say that EVs were superior (certainly not the Solterra) for road tripping. But they are also not as bad as you may think. Some EVs like the Ioniq 5 that can charge from 10-80% in 18 min, are actually pretty good. And if you get gas from Costco to get the cheapest prices (which is what everyone is doing these days), it is a lot longer. And I don't think you could fill a car with gas in less than 5 min, incl having to pay, etc.

But regardless, the Solterra is not the best for road tripping. It is for off-roading, the only EV that can do it at this time.
 

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Just remember, unlike ICE cars that you only fill up when near empty, EVs are charged a bit pretty well every time you stop somewhere for a pee or a bite. So it does not cost you as much in time on a trip as you might think. But it does take a little planning. Good news, is that charging stations are usually near other amenities.
I agree with your ICE vs EV point. But, the issue here is how long you have to stop (Solterra vs EV competition). It doesn't take me 56 minutes to pee, which is the reason for 2/3 of the stops after about 140 miles of driving (2 hours). From the info I've pieced together, I think the real-world charging time on a DC Charger would be more like 30-35 minutes (15-80%). Fingers crossed. To play in the park, we first have to get there.
 

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Wow! I'm nearly broken to hear its max L3 charging rate is 100 KW, and it takes 56 minutes to charge to 80%. I can live with the 222 mi range, since road tripping strategy is to drive about 1 1/2 hours and charge for 15-20 minutes in the sweet spot of the charging curve. But, I'm afraid 100 KW isn't going to provide that ability. I still need to see the real world charging performance and curves, since Subaru has been quite conservative about other specs so far. No one expected 0-60 mph in 6 seconds after hearing 7.4 seconds for so long. And I'm delighted about the comfortable ride and low noise. Scratching my head about the 100 KW charger though. Got me thinking they're cutting corners really tight to hold the price down. May be a deal-breaker, though.
I made a post on Imgur on this very issue, listing the charge times for other vehicles and it turns out that the Mach-E took 49 minutes even at 150kW, the Polestar 2.0 took 46 minutes (also 150kW), the ID.4 (which had an Over The Air update from 125kW to 135kW, so still slower than the first two) did it in 40 minutes. The max speed is one stat, but it looks like how long it lasts is more important (just as any of my exes).

The Japanese site saying
  • DC fast charging: up to 150 kW (up to 80% in about 30 minutes)
is mirrored on the European Toyota site too... but as my post on Imgur showed, even a Hyundai Ioniq 5 pulling 800 Volts and topping out at 350kW still only got to 80% in 25 minutes and 19 seconds. At 150kW, there is no physical way an EV with a Heat Management System doing its job would pull that much electricity (with the heat it would generate) for a half an hour constantly. Every other EV tested shows none of them are immune to the Joule–Lenz Law (the heat produced by an electric current is equal to the product of the resistance of the conductor, the square of the current, and the time for which it flows). Not unless the battery cooling system developed by Toyota / Subaru is insanely better than anything that anyone has seen before.
 

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That dealer pdf has already been discussed on this forum.
 

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Official press release from Subaru says 150 kW. I believe I heard on Insideevs podcast that the 10-80% 50 min is put out to downplay expectations. The fancy numbers put out buy Hyundai/Kia depend on optimal conditions and powerful enough stations. Also sometimes you start alone at a 150 or 250 kW double cable station so you get the full potential but then someone else pulls up and now the power output is cut by half.
 
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