[rsmsully]

Don't choose the Qmerit charger deal before reading this:

April 26- Like many of you on this forum I was convinced to go outside of my car budget comfort zone when there was a federal tax credit of $7500 to go along with the Solterra. Had Subaru been able to deliver it before August 16 as it was scheduled, I would already have the car and the credit.

August 16- The new tax law knocked Subarus out of the tax credit and I had to adjust to a newer and more expensive reality again.

November 30 -I find out my Solterra (Smoked Carbon, Limited) is scheduled for delivery here in NC on December 23. I receive a link to choose between $400 off on Qmerit charger/installation or $400 EZGO charge credit. Subaru is telling me go ahead and get it installed now. But before I can see the cost details of the Qmerit charger I'm told that I have to make a final decision that I am going forward on the charger/install rather than the EVGO credit. So I sit on that for a week without any resolution. I didn't yet have enough information about I car I've never seen and a technology I've never used.

December 7- I've just found out there's another federal tax incentive ($1000) if I can get the charger chosen and installed by December 31. So I jump on the Subaru/Qmerit arrangment to research it and see it through. Once I see the cost of the Qmerit Juicebox 40 is $650 I no longer want to buy it, because the $400 rebate makes the price no better than a Chargepoint Flex which has a $500 rebate to anyone who wants it. I'd rather forego the Solterra $400 rebate deal on Qmerit so that I can instead purchase the Chargepoint Flex which gets better reviews. AND I can use my local electrician who is already expert at Tesla and Mach E owner installs. AND I'd like to go back now and choose the $400 EZGO credit, but Subaru and Qmerit have already made me commit otherwise. That option is gone. So if I never even end up installing the charger, and closing the deal on the Solterra I've ordered, will Subaru keep my refundable deposit? Will Subaru disallow the future buyer from getting te EVGO deal? I don't know. And as we all know by now, Subaru is not even sharing informatioin with its dealers, much less little old me the consumer.

FYI, my wife has also ordered a Harbor Mist Touring edition which should be on the next shipment. We had hoped to compare the two colors and choose one car only. Since her car (which was ordered first) is not here yet, the local dealer has told me the first car will be take it or leave it on arrival day! So the long wait and frustrating lack of communication is nearly over, but the decision making is just beginning. In the next day or two I will need to finish the deal to buy a charger and hire an installer to get the $1000 tax credit. I can only hope I can fit in the passenger areas of this car I'm not able to yet sample. I can only "hope" my two labradors fit in the cargo area.

Done venting.

Frustrated in NC

 

[BirdBrain]

Thanks for venting. I also received the 'credit on charging' email, but no date for delivery. I'm holding off doing anything about the charging. Thanks for the heads up about how Qmerit 'works'. I feel the same about losing the $7500 tax credit and needing to see the car before I buy it. Can I fit my bike in the back, since I'm not sure that activity mount is sufficient. I haven't heard from the dealer for a few months. If the car arrives when I'm traveling for the holidays and it's a "take it or leave it" situation that day, I guess I will pass and not feel too badly about it.

 

[JayEM]

@rsmsully, have you decided to get the Juicebox 40 or the Chargepoint Flex (assuming you do go ahead with a charger installation)? I need to read up on the Chargepoint Flex, I had been leaning to get the Juicebox 40 (I already have a 240v EVSE - that I've been using for > 5 years - but it's only 16 amps).

Thanks for the warning, that really seems like a shady deal with QMerit. It never seemed like a GREAT deal from the outset.

Edit: note that the FTC in 2022 is 30%, up to $1,000.

 

[massolterra]

Just curious... what's the $500 Rebate Deal on the Chargepoint charger?

Also, I always thought QMerit was just an installer network. The electrician I hired (through Thumbtack) to install my Wallbox chargers also does installations through QMerit. I assumed the $400 credit was to go toward the installation costs. Does the fine print stipulate you must purchase a specific brand charger through QMerit's shop in order to use the $400 credit? If so, I agree it's very misleading and should be billed as a $400 coupon toward the charger since QMerit's shope appears to only sell the Juicebox.

Also, just to clarify, I believe it's a 30% tax credit on installs, up to $1000. So the total installed cost would have to be >= $3,333.33 for you to get $1000. When we got our PHEV Chrysler Pacifica last year, we got two Level 2 chargers (Wallbox Pulsar) installed it cost under $3k total for them after installation.

 

[FelineFreddie]

The charger “credit” seems like a way to give something away that no one that does much research will “opt-in” on.

So, you’re getting a credit that makes a high-priced product/service a little less overpriced than what you can purchase a competitive product for at a substantially lower price.

Or, am I missing something here?

 

[JayEM]

The charger “credit” seems like a way to give something away that no one that does much research will “opt-in” on.

So, you’re getting a credit that makes a high-priced product/service a little less overpriced than what you can purchase a competitive product for at a substantially lower price.

Or, am I missing something here?

No, that sounds about right.

Likewise, the alternative $400 EVgo credit is worth less to most people than a $400 Electrify America credit would be - even assuming it can be used at ChargePoint.

 

[FelineFreddie]

From what I can see…The Qmerit option seems like it’s aimed at the buyer that knows nothing about charging, and really isn’t interested in learning anything about it. All they want is a “plug and play” system set up, and for it to be a hassle-free installation.

In some highly regulated locations that require all sorts of inspections, permits and such, maybe it might be worth the price to let a 3rd party handle all the arrangements, but for most folks it would probably be easier and far less expensive to take a different route.

Besides, if one’s main purpose in buying a Solterra is to get a relatively insignificant credit for a charging/charger arrangement, they’ve probably made a poor choice.

Its a way for Subaru to give most buyers a discount for an item they’ll never use…kinds like a friend of mine who bought a Chevy Bolt and was given free oil/filter changes by the dealership for the first 50K miles (and, that’s not a joke…I’ve seen the paperwork). I think he has shown it to just about everyone he’s met…it’s always a laugh-getter.

 

[KSchneider]

The Inflation Reduction Act tax credits include several kinds of Green Home Improvements relevant to getting a Solterra or any EV. Installation of any EVSE (aka charging equipment) gets a 30% tax credit. Installing solar panels also gets the 30% tax credit.
<https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/605...ax-credits-energy-efficient-home-improvements>

 

[LWT42]

I don't see a reason for any kind of "charge box" -- have a local electrician put a 4L50 outlet, and use whatever cord plugs into that and whatever car you have: Tesla, Nissan or Subaru (yes, those use different car-end connectors).

 

[CTValleySubaruGuy]

I don't see a reason for any kind of "charge box" -- have a local electrician put a 4L50 outlet, and use whatever cord plugs into that and whatever car you have: Tesla, Nissan or Subaru (yes, those use different car-end connectors).

For a Level 1 charge, you really can plug in to just about any outlet and suck up some zoomies,, but you won't charge very fast, maybe 3-5 miles of range per hour. To take advantage of Level 2 (240v) charging speeds, however, it's not as simple as just hooking up any old cable and plugging in to the vehicle. Well, not if you want your home and vehicle to survive the experience. The charger itself is actually in the vehicle, and can handle the load, but it works more efficiently when the power delivery is regulated (due to heat management in the charging system).

Most importantly, though, EV's take HUGE amounts of power, and it's drawn steadily over a long period of time, generating lots of heat. Use just any old equipment, and you're flirting with melted cord insulation, melted connections on the vehicle, and electrical fires in the house. At the very least, you'll need to get used to resetting breakers frequently. Every reliable contractor, and every article I've read from a reputable source, recommends using commercial-grade wiring and fixtures.

This also wouldn't be in compliance with building codes in most areas. Your homeowners insurance company would certainly insist on doing things properly. Think about how expensive it would be if they denied a claim due to improper / non-conforming electrical modifications.

The cable end connector really isn't an issue. You can buy adapters if you need a different connection method (although I'd buy a charger with a connector that fits the vehicle you charge most frequently).

But, you know, if safety, reliability, and building code compliance (those codes are written for a reason, and it's not to earn money for local governments) aren't important to you, then sure, go ahead and kludge something together and save a few bucks.

 

[LWT42]

For a Level 1 charge, you really can plug in to just about any outlet and suck up some zoomies,, but you won't charge very fast, maybe 3-5 miles of range per hour. To take advantage of Level 2 (240v) charging speeds, however, it's not as simple as just hooking up any old cable and plugging in to the vehicle. Well, not if you want your home and vehicle to survive the experience. The charger itself is actually in the vehicle, and can handle the load, but it works more efficiently when the power delivery is regulated (due to heat management in the charging system).

(redacted for space)

But, you know, if safety, reliability, and building code compliance (those codes are written for a reason, and it's not to earn money for local governments) aren't important to you, then sure, go ahead and kludge something together and save a few bucks.

You're correct that the level 1 and 2 chargers are in the car. (like everything from a Nissan Leaf to a Tesla model S)

... and you can't just plug "any old cable" into the car -- it has to have an IEC type 2 connector. The cable has some switching so it knows it's safely plugged in, and then the on-board charger takes power starts charging.

If Subaru (and Toyota) have decided not to follow CCS or IEC type 2 standards, then they're really limiting options.

There are some cool videos of EVs charging using an RV hookup at a campground -- at Level 2.

Please note that I did not say "just any old wire" -- installing a 4L50 outlet still should be done by a licensed electrician and may need a permit. It needs a 50 amp breaker in the panel, and properly sized wire for the distance run. 50 amp breaker means 40 amps charging at 240v. Like the 120v portable "charger" the 240v wire needs to be UL approved, and the car decides how much it's going to draw -- something it has to do anyway to maximize battery life.

If it's a permitted outlet, a UL approved cable that matches the application (EV charging) and a car that should be smart enough to not light itself on fire, then I don't see how this is a Kluge.

 

[md.]

I don't see a reason for any kind of "charge box" -- have a local electrician put a 4L50 outlet, and use whatever cord plugs into that and whatever car you have: Tesla, Nissan or Subaru (yes, those use different car-end connectors).

What do you mean when you said you didn't see a need for any kind of "charge box"? You need a receptacle on the wall and you also need an EVSE. Are you saying there's no need to get a wall-mount type EVSE and just use a cable-type one instead?

 

[FelineFreddie]

Maybe this link will help explain the advantages of an EVSE…

What Is EVSE And Why Does Your Electric Car Charger Need It?

There was a time when an electric car could be plugged into just about any electrical outlet its owner could find. With a little bit of ingenuity and forward planning, any electric car could plug-in just about anywhere. We’ve heard stories of National Electric Drag Racing Association (NEDRA)...

www.greencarreports.com

 

[LWT42]

What do you mean when you said you didn't see a need for any kind of "charge box"? You need a receptacle on the wall and you also need an EVSE. Are you saying there's no need to get a wall-mount type EVSE and just use a cable-type one instead?

Exactly that.

The proper receptacle (4L50 outlet) and a cable type EVSE will work fine. It'll even work fine with a Tesla (proprietary) or a Nissan Leaf (Chademo) in addition to the vast majority of the fleet that uses CCS/IEC 2.

The cable type is exactly the same as the simpler EVSE boxes. Some have fancy features like WiFi, but I don't see the need if the car charging is programmable.

A friend's Tesla is programmed to draw 30 amps max (he can go to 48, just doesn't need to), and finish the charge at 7:00 am. It figures out when to start charging. I'd expect all EVs to copy this feature, it's too useful.

 

[LWT42]

Maybe this link will help explain the advantages of an EVSE…

What Is EVSE And Why Does Your Electric Car Charger Need It?

There was a time when an electric car could be plugged into just about any electrical outlet its owner could find. With a little bit of ingenuity and forward planning, any electric car could plug-in just about anywhere. We’ve heard stories of National Electric Drag Racing Association (NEDRA)...

www.greencarreports.com

At Level 3, this article is all true. The in-car "charger" tells the outboard fast-charger what to do.

At Level 1 or Level 2, the car takes whatever is available and as many amps as needed. The part about safety is correct as the (car end) plug goes dead when you remove it from the car. You tell the car what the circuit can handle.

There are more in-depth sources that take a far more technical approach, this article overstates a little.

Most of the portable EVSE's I've seen have a 120v and a 240v pigtail that plugs in on the grid side.

 

[JayEM]

Exactly that.

The proper receptacle (4L50 outlet) and a cable type EVSE will work fine. It'll even work fine with a Tesla (proprietary) or a Nissan Leaf (Chademo) in addition to the vast majority of the fleet that uses CCS/IEC 2.

Just for the record, the Nissan Leaf uses the same J1772 as the Solterra and all other non-Teslas for L1/L2 charging. CHAdeMo is only used for "L3" aka DC Fast Charging.

 

[O. horridus]

I don't see a reason for any kind of "charge box"

If you just have the one Solterra and no other vehicle, then perhaps. Many of us though do or will have more than one EV, in which case taking 12-24 hours to charge just one vehicle at Level 1 or Level 2 speeds is not sufficient. Also, some of us have vehicles with bigger batteries than the Solterra, which take correspondingly longer to charge. So a "box" is useful to supply a much greater current (=shorter charging time) or to perform automatic load sharing so that two vehicles may be charged simultaneously. Load sharing is way cheaper than having to upgrade your panel for two dedicated EVSE.

The Solterra comes with a portable "box" for Level 1 charging, which will take you 24 hours to add 80% to your battery. That's not good enough for me. You can buy a portable Level 2 "box" which gives you more, but I prefer to keep the portable charger in the vehicle and have a dedicated EVSE permanently mounted on the wall of my garage that I don't have to keep taking out and putting away every time I charge.

But yes, for some EVs and some situations you can get away with just a 110V wall outlet (15A or 20A), or a 30A RV outlet, or a 50A NEMA 14-50 outlet. All of which have to be run at 80% of the rated current when charging EVs.

 

[LWT42]

But yes, for some EVs and some situations you can get away with just a 110V wall outlet (15A or 20A), or a 30A RV outlet, or a 50A NEMA 14-50 outlet. All of which have to be run at 80% of the rated current when charging EVs.

My understanding is that the NEMA 14-50 and a dedicated, wall mounted EVSE is less than 18%, and that is only true if the in-car charger will draw more than 40 amps over the entire charging period.

Either way, my only goal was to suggest that a dedicated charger bolted to the wall is not the only answer.

 

[JayEM]

18%?

 

[LWT42]

18%?

If the wall mounted EVSE calls for a 60 amp breaker, and the NEMA 4-50 calls for a 50 amp breaker, then the difference is 50/60 or 0.8333, or 83 percent. The EVSE might start faster if it can exceed 40 amps, but once the charging rate drops below 40 amps, they're the same.

The only way to know is to test. For all I know the Solterra never draws more than 40 amps and the point is moot.