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Hoping engineers will improve things during pre-production. I'm assuming this can be remedied by a software tweak. I'm taking all reviews with a grain of salt until vehicles start hitting the roads this summer.
One of the show-stoppers for me was finding out I would be getting a CATL battery instead of a Panasonic battery. A close friend of mine works in the industry (electrical engineering), and he wasn’t excited about the prospect of my ending up with a CATL battery. It also explains to some degree why Toyota is limiting the charge rate more for their AWD (CATL battery) model compared to their FWD (Panasonic battery) model… they feel compelled to pamper the CATL battery more.
 

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Do you have any articles or links to suggest the CATL batteries are inferior?
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CATL
"China Aviation Lithium Battery (CALB), a direct competitor of CATL. CALB is known for lithium iron phosphate batteries, which were considered inferior to CATL's ternary lithium batteries due to the latter's longer battery life. This changed in 2019, when multiple GAC Aion S vehicles caught fire due to poor thermal stability of CATL's power cells..."

CATL Batteries Catch Fires - Businesskorea

"A rival had released a video suggesting that a technology used by the company, CATL, and other manufacturers could cause car fires. Imitating a Chinese government safety test, the rival had driven a nail through a battery cell, one of many in a typical electric car battery. The cell exploded in a fireball."


I'm less concerned about the missing state of charge display; now I want to see a status display for the battery chiller: is the coolant flowing, and what is the temperature of the batteries.
 

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Hoping engineers will improve things during pre-production. I'm assuming this can be remedied by a software tweak. I'm taking all reviews with a grain of salt until vehicles start hitting the roads this summer.
I really find it hard to believe so many are willing to plop down $50k+ for a vehicle with many abysmal traits hoping they will be remedied in the future by a software fix. Toyota/Subaru released the vehicle for testing with no caveats about future updates to remedy these issues that have discussed at length beforehand. I fear many of you will be greatly disappointed.
 

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I really find it hard to believe so many are willing to plop down $50k+ for a vehicle with many abysmal traits hoping they will be remedied in the future by a software fix. Toyota/Subaru released the vehicle for testing with no caveats about future updates to remedy these issues that have discussed at length beforehand. I fear many of you will be greatly disappointed.
I promise I won't be disappointed. :) After state and local rebates, Federal tax credit, and Subaru partnership perks, I'm more than happy. I don't need 18 minute fast charging. I don't need 300+ mile range. And I like the cladding! The only thing I don't like is how some dealerships are taking advantage of customers with ADMs. Uncool. I was lucky not to have a greedy dealer ruin my experience.

I don't want a Tesla, Hyundai, VW, Kia, Ford, or Toyota. Call me crazy but the Solterra is the perfect car for me!
 

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I really find it hard to believe so many are willing to plop down $50k+ for a vehicle with many abysmal traits hoping they will be remedied in the future by a software fix. Toyota/Subaru released the vehicle for testing with no caveats about future updates to remedy these issues that have discussed at length beforehand. I fear many of you will be greatly disappointed.
I see only one abysmal trait: charging speed on a DC Fast Charger. And I'm hoping that gets fixed before August.
 

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I promise I won't be disappointed. :) After state and local rebates, Federal tax credit, and Subaru partnership perks, I'm more than happy. I don't need 18 minute fast charging. I don't need 300+ mile range. And I like the cladding! The only thing I don't like is how some dealerships are taking advantage of customers with ADMs. Uncool. I was lucky not to have a greedy dealer ruin my experience.

I don't want a Tesla, Hyundai, VW, Kia, Ford, or Toyota. Call me crazy but the Solterra is the perfect car for me!
I agree it is a step in the right direction - and Elon Musk is the reason I will never own a Tesla. But there are too many drawbacks, making the Solterra inconvenient under the best circumstances, and potentially life-threatening under the worst. I'd love to go electric, but the industry isn't delivering an affordable, viable ICE alternative at this point.
 

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I really find it hard to believe so many are willing to plop down $50k+ for a vehicle with many abysmal traits hoping they will be remedied in the future by a software fix. Toyota/Subaru released the vehicle for testing with no caveats about future updates to remedy these issues that have discussed at length beforehand. I fear many of you will be greatly disappointed.
Take it for what it is. You’re implying that many here are sheeple hoping that an OTA update will fix shortcomings that you see but that don’t bother others.

If you’re not interested in the car, don’t ruin the experience for others and let’s see how things will turn out in August or whenever the car gets delivered.
 

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It looks like if you buy brand new computer with 2-3 years old hardware
Toyota installes Panasonic in Europe and Japan .
Second class batteries go for North America
No worries, all cars are sold out because of rebates
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CATL
"China Aviation Lithium Battery (CALB), a direct competitor of CATL. CALB is known for lithium iron phosphate batteries, which were considered inferior to CATL's ternary lithium batteries due to the latter's longer battery life. This changed in 2019, when multiple GAC Aion S vehicles caught fire due to poor thermal stability of CATL's power cells..."

CATL Batteries Catch Fires - Businesskorea

"A rival had released a video suggesting that a technology used by the company, CATL, and other manufacturers could cause car fires. Imitating a Chinese government safety test, the rival had driven a nail through a battery cell, one of many in a typical electric car battery. The cell exploded in a fireball."


I'm less concerned about the missing state of charge display; now I want to see a status display for the battery chiller: is the coolant flowing, and what is the temperature of the batteries.
Maybe, but do we really think these batteries haven’t improved since 2019? 3 years is an eternity when it comes to electronics.
 

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Maybe, but do we really think these batteries haven’t improved since 2019? 3 years is an eternity when it comes to electronics.
I wasn’t aware of the issue described in that article. I’m only aware—through a close friend who works in the industry—that the CATL batteries aren’t quite as good as the Panasonic batteries. The CATL batteries are cheaper, but I don’t have any information that suggests their current packs are dangerous or low quality, just that Panasonic tends to have better QC, and that the specs on the CATL packs appear to suggest they don’t handle fast charging quite as well as the Panasonic packs.

To be honest, I really doubt Toyota or Subaru would have opted for a battery pack—regardless where it was being shipped—that would be of poor quality. My personal preference is to get the best battery pack available from the manufacturer, but not everyone has the same requirements as me.
 

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For comparison, this is how fast the Ioniq 5 can charge.
In fairness, conditions were ideal at 75F and a car that was just driven hard on the freeway. And it is an 800V system. While it did 10-80% in 18 min, the charging curve started to drop after 40% and continued to do so more and more as it got closer to 80%.

At best, the Solterra will be half that fast, again under the most ideal conditions.
 

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Can you really trust a "reviewer" who can't bother to spell the car's name correctly? It's not Ionic as shown in the graphic, and it's not Ionig as shown in the YouTube title. What else did they get wrong, if they didn't get the simple stuff right?
 

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Yeah, pretty sloppy... Funny, I usually notice and frown on stuff like that. But I completely missed those. But they did show how that car can charge so fast...
 

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Yes, he did show that, but I don't trust that this is a fair test, it is way too anecdotal. Kyle from OOS is far more methodical and at least tries to get to the correct answer rather than just document a single specific experience. See Kyle's Ioniq 5 video(s) for a proper review, with follow-ups: https://www.youtube.com/c/OutofSpecReviews/search?query=ioniq

That said, the Ioniq 5 does have a very good charge curve! Which you probably can't take advantage of at most charging stations... But driving an EV like you do an ICE, by running it until the tank is near "empty" then "filling" it all the way, is not how one should be thinking about it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
At the end of the day I think we are nearly all in agreement that Toyota is pursuing class leading battery preservation (anti-degradation) numbers. If that is at the expense of faster charging, that is what they are after. If I was in a situation where I was expecting to need to DCFC regularly I would be more concerned. But, largely as a commuter vehicle and weekend kid sports hauler, the need to DCFC is minimal for my needs.

We don’t really know the long term implications of 800V super-rapid charging curves yet; but I think it’s a safe bet to say Toyota will achieve their goal of minimum degradation after 10 years.

What would be good is if we, the owners, had an option to press per instance. For example, let’s say I am in a huge rush to get somewhere, I can push a button for “rapid charging”. A lawyer screen will pop up that may have you agree to a reduced warranty number for purposes of degradation (maybe 1% for ever 10 sessions, as an example) or at the least, a warning screen telling you doing this all the time is probably not a good idea.
 

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At the end of the day I think we are nearly all in agreement that Toyota is pursuing class leading battery preservation (anti-degradation) numbers. If that is at the expense of faster charging, that is what they are after. If I was in a situation where I was expecting to need to DCFC regularly I would be more concerned. But, largely as a commuter vehicle and weekend kid sports hauler, the need to DCFC is minimal for my needs.

We don’t really know the long term implications of 800V super-rapid charging curves yet; but I think it’s a safe bet to say Toyota will achieve their goal of minimum degradation after 10 years.

What would be good is if we, the owners, had an option to press per instance. For example, let’s say I am in a huge rush to get somewhere, I can push a button for “rapid charging”. A lawyer screen will pop up that may have you agree to a reduced warranty number for purposes of degradation (maybe 1% for ever 10 sessions, as an example) or at the least, a warning screen telling you doing this all the time is probably not a good idea.
I'm not so sure about that degradation stuff. Batteries are only degrading 10% after 100,000 miles of abuse and more than 50% of the time fast charged. Who will keep one of these 10 years? EV tech is changing so fast, trade ups will likely come faster. The European AWD Solterra gets 150 kW charging, while we're stuck with 100 kW. And its real world charging speed is even worse than most of us feared (judging by the recent bZ4X test). I love almost everything else about the car. But, they need to fix this problem.
 
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