[Ahab]

Kyle Connor is one of the few EV journalists--actually, I could stop that sentence right there. In short, while I don't always agree with him, I always trust his breadth of knowledge and his tail-wagging Labrador Retriever enthusiasm.
And this charging curve is more than a shot across the bow of a car he actually likes; it's a torpedo through the waterline. It's difficult to imagine that Toyota (and by extension Subaru) didn't know this would be a problem.
Tailoring a charging curve to reduce a car's long-term battery damage is an admirable goal, but not if the charging curve is so bad they don't sell any cars.
Of course the charging curve can be altered in software to make it bearable. But if it isn't, you have to suspect the motivations of EV-skeptical top management.
I won't be cancelling my Solterra reservation over this. But at the same time, I won't be cancelling my AWD ID.4 reservation either.

 

[JayEM]

Devastating! Toyota/Subaru really need to fix this.

With OTA updates, they will clearly have the ABILITY to fix it (as VW was able to alter the ID.4's charging curve). I hope they don't take too long to realize a fix is needed, and deploy it.

 

[Whoabear]

With OTA updates, they will clearly have the ABILITY to fix it (as VW was able to alter the ID.4's charging curve).

In addition, I believe everything we have seen so far would be considered a pre-production vehicle. I could be wrong on that. It will be interesting to see other charging tests as more people do them. One test of one pre-production car isn’t exactly a representative sample.

 

[Ahab]

There are other charging tests floating around, but none so methodical. So far. Though the anecdotal reviewers appear to have come to similar conclusions. Again: this is something Toyotaru can readily fix in software. A more in-depth review from another studious propeller-head like Alex on Autos will, I'm sure, be along soonish. Alex liked the car very much in his first drive, though he had misgivings about the published charge rate.
By the time the first cars arrive in July, we should know all we need to know.

 

[StevenH]

Kyle Connor is one of the few EV journalists--actually, I could stop that sentence right there. In short, while I don't always agree with him, I always trust his breadth of knowledge and his tail-wagging Labrador Retriever enthusiasm.
And this charging curve is more than a shot across the bow of a car he actually likes; it's a torpedo through the waterline. It's difficult to imagine that Toyota (and by extension Subaru) didn't know this would be a problem.
Tailoring a charging curve to reduce a car's long-term battery damage is an admirable goal, but not if the charging curve is so bad they don't sell any cars.
Of course the charging curve can be altered in software to make it bearable. But if it isn't, you have to suspect the motivations of EV-skeptical top management.
I won't be cancelling my Solterra reservation over this. But at the same time, I won't be cancelling my AWD ID.4 reservation either.

I took Kyle's spreadsheet data and averaged the charging speed over the first 50% SoC. It was 73 kW. Bad, but not shoot yourself in the head bad. It would take about 25 minutes 0-50%, and assuming 3.1 mi/kWh efficiency at 70 mph, you'd go 95 miles. Problem is, I don't want to take the charge all the way to 0% before I charge. So, 10-60% charging averages 65 kW, which would take about 28 minutes. So, road trips where you charger-hop every 90 minutes of driving for 28 minutes of charging is doable, if not ideal. I would like to see the real-world efficiency in case it does better than 3.1 mi/kWh at 70 mph.

 

[StevenH]

In addition, I believe everything we have seen so far would be considered a pre-production vehicle. I could be wrong on that. It will be interesting to see other charging tests as more people do them. One test of one pre-production car isn’t exactly a representative sample.

The thing that scares me is these results are consistent with Subaru's statement at the LA Auto Show that it charges to 80% in under an hour. If this hot mess is by design, oh my goodness. The car is so good otherwise, but it's like "The play was so good, Mrs. Lincoln, except for what happened to your husband." My order for the Solterra is in. And I'm sitting here filled with anxiety about the charging speed, but filled with hope that Toyota/Subaru will fix this. Prayers everyone.

 

[Whoabear]

To be clear my expectations wouldn’t be that the 0-80% would change that drastically. Maybe get it down to 45 minutes? Unless, that is, the car is actually physically capable of 150 instead of 100. If that is true then it could get even quicker. It would be worth thinking about 0-80 in an hour as worst case possibility for real world, and this is certainly something that may or may not work for everyone’s needs.

However I don’t think there is any reason to think the additional 4 hours or whatever out of spec experienced to get from 80-100 is representative of real world experience. I don’t see any reason to think that will be true.

 

[Ahab]

Where I live in Maine, fast DC chargers are few and far between. I have no problem with charger-hopping to get where I'm going, but unless I'm headed south there are very few chargers to hop beyond Level 2s. For me, the attraction of the Solterra is (besides the nameplate and a 50-year relationship with the local dealer) the heat pump, which should put it about on par with the ID.4's range in the winter. Charging from 0% to 100% is not something I'd ever do, but charging from 20% to 80% I'd expect to do every time I ventured outside a 100-mile circle of upper Penobscot Bay. A half-hour at the charger? Not a problem. An hour or more? And maybe two charging stops? That transforms a day trip to Portland into an overnight.

 

[JayEM]

To be clear my expectations wouldn’t be that the 0-80% would change that drastically. Maybe get it down to 45 minutes? Unless, that is, the car is actually physically capable of 150 instead of 100. If that is true then it could get even quicker. It would be worth thinking about 0-80 in an hour as worst case possibility for real world, and this is certainly something that may or may not work for everyone’s needs.

However I don’t think there is any reason to think the additional 4 hours or whatever out of spec experienced to get from 80-100 is representative of real world experience. I don’t see any reason to think that will be true.

I'm less concerned by the charge rate maxing out at 100 kW (vs. 150) than by how steeply the power drops once it passes 17% SOC. Kyle's graph shows the rate at 50 kW at just 50% SOC, which equates to having still 31 kWh (usable capacity) to go until full.

I'm currently driving a 2019 BMW i3S BEV which maxes out at just 50 kW, but it typically stays at (close to) 50 kW until past 90% SOC - at which point it is just 4 kWh from full. When road-tripping in the i3 I can routinely count on averaging close to 50 kW from virtually any starting SOC until past 90%. I would hope and expect the Solterra to beat that... but not sure it will.

Recognizing that many current DCFCs are limited to 50 or 60 kW, it will surprise (and disappoint) me if the production versions of the Solterra/bZ4X AWD can't hold at least 50kW well up into the 70s and 80s.

 

[StevenH]

I'm less concerned by the charge rate maxing out at 100 kW (vs. 150) than by how steeply the power drops once it passes 17% SOC. Kyle's graph shows the rate at 50 kW at just 50% SOC, which equates to having still 31 kWh (usable capacity) to go until full.

I'm currently driving a 2019 BMW i3S BEV which maxes out at just 50 kW, but it typically stays at (close to) 50 kW until past 90% SOC - at which point it is just 4 kWh from full. When road-tripping in the i3 I can routinely count on averaging close to 50 kW from virtually any starting SOC until past 90%. I would hope and expect the Solterra to beat that... but not sure it will.

Recognizing that many current DCFCs are limited to 50 or 60 kW, it will surprise (and disappoint) me if the production versions of the Solterra/bZ4X AWD can't hold at least 50kW well up into the 70s and 80s.

At 80%, the bZ4X is already down to 18 kW.

 

[JayEM]

At 80%, the bZ4X is already down to 18 kW.

Exactly! That is just dumb IMO. I need to play with Kyle's data some more, and specifically to record the times at each SOC from the video.

 

[StevenH]

Exactly! That is just dumb IMO. I need to play with Kyle's data some more, and specifically to record the times at each SOC from the video.

Good idea. I just checked his video and it took 30 minutes 10-60%. That should be close to 90 minutes of Interstate driving, assuming 3.1 mi/kWh. If you dare to get close to 0% SoC, then 0-50% took 25 minutes.

 

[Wainwright]

I took Kyle's spreadsheet data and averaged the charging speed over the first 50% SoC. It was 73 kW. Bad, but not shoot yourself in the head bad. It would take about 25 minutes 0-50%, and assuming 3.1 mi/kWh efficiency at 70 mph, you'd go 95 miles. Problem is, I don't want to take the charge all the way to 0% before I charge. So, 10-60% charging averages 65 kW, which would take about 28 minutes. So, road trips where you charger-hop every 90 minutes of driving for 28 minutes of charging is doable, if not ideal. I would like to see the real-world efficiency in case it does better than 3.1 mi/kWh at 70 mph.

This sounds great in theory, but with unreliable charging stations, you should always leave enough charge to get to the next station just in case the one you pull up to is out of order.

 

[Damon D.]

I want these range and charging specs please!

 

[Housemartin]

I want these range and charging specs please!

Is this the Smoked Carbon paint job with black StarTex interior? If so, that's the color I ordered and I'm super happy with my choice.

 

[JayEM]

Is this the Smoked Carbon paint job with black StarTex interior? If so, that's the color I ordered and I'm super happy with my choice.

Looks like Harbor Mist Gray to me...

 

[StevenH]

I want these range and charging specs please!

That's with the 71.4 kWh Panasonic battery the Solterra gets in Europe that peaks at 150 kW charging (vs 72.8 kWh CATL in N. America with 100 kW peak). Another interesting difference is their 0-60 times seem to be a tad slower than ours. But their 20-80% SoC in 19 minutes has me jealous.

 

[R P]

But their 20-80% SoC in 19 minutes has me jealous.

Don't bet on it. Only spec I believe at this point is 10-80% in about an hour, with whatever battery. My Kona EV was about that, so it makes sense to me with the old tech 400V battery system.

 

[StevenH]

Don't bet on it. Only spec I believe at this point is 10-80% in about an hour, with whatever battery. My Kona EV was about that, so it makes sense to me with the old tech 400V battery system.

It's not with "whatever battery." It's with a much faster charging battery that Subaru Europe says charges to 80% in 30 minutes. We don't get that battery in the U.S. spec Solterra. Even the slow one we get (actually the AWD bZ4X Limited) charged 0-80% in 62 minutes by Kyle Conner. The first 10% took 4 minutes. Also, the battery is 355 volts.

 

[R P]

It's not with "whatever battery." It's with a much faster charging battery that Subaru Europe says charges to 80% in 30 minutes. We don't get that battery in the U.S. spec Solterra. Even the slow one we get (actually the AWD bZ4X Limited) charged 0-80% in 62 minutes by Kyle Conner. The first 10% took 4 minutes. Also, the battery is 355 volts.

Like I said don't bet on it. And most 400V systems are actually 355 or 356. So it is more a category threshold, just as 800V systems are not actually a full 800V.

I have explained before why Kyle's test was not totally relevant, and he failed to explain the conditions of his test and what is really important. I think that was very misleading, and irresponsible for such an experienced EV reviewer. But even his test showed 10-80% in less that an hour, which makes sense, and what you can count on for tripping. My Kona EV was the same (also a 400V system).