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Why would they change their minds? Dealers that charge markups do so for their own reasons. And they will still sell every single one they can get their hands on.
 

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Seems like some people here are disillusioned with the wait time / recall / Toyota-Subaru response. And forum users here are more favorable to Subaru than an average EV buyer. There is more supply in general (As More Cars Hit Dealership Lots, Buyers Feel Pinch of Rising Interest Rates). More EVs coming out. I doubt the dealer markup is sustainable in 2023-24. at least i hope it isn’t sustainable
 

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Yes, but Subaru is likely trying to figure out how to position their vehicles in comparison to all those ones that qualify for government incentives in the US. Their vehicles just got ~$10K more expensive with the signing of the IRA, and its very unlikely they are just going to lower the price to be competitive, so I'm sure they are trying to figure out some way to add in a discount from a manufacturer perspective. That said, the dealers that were using the government incentives as some kind of quasi-justification for their own markups now have even more pressure against their disgusting practices. Maybe some will rethink it, but probably not.

Just agreeing to pay MSRP for me is a huge concession, if my dealer tries to add their own "cost" to the transaction (they already add administrative fees anyway, and for my particular vehicle they have agreed to MSRP) I'll just laugh in their face and walk out.

My impression is the EV market is going to be dominated by those with huge disposable incomes, keeping prices high and rewarding bad behavior from dealers, until 2024. It may take this long to get updates to the Solterra to make it more acceptable anyway.
 

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Yes, but Subaru is likely trying to figure out how to position their vehicles in comparison to all those ones that qualify for government incentives in the US. Their vehicles just got ~$10K more expensive with the signing of the IRA, and its very unlikely they are just going to lower the price to be competitive, so I'm sure they are trying to figure out some way to add in a discount from a manufacturer perspective. That said, the dealers that were using the government incentives as some kind of quasi-justification for their own markups now have even more pressure against their disgusting practices. Maybe some will rethink it, but probably not.

Just agreeing to pay MSRP for me is a huge concession, if my dealer tries to add their own "cost" to the transaction (they already add administrative fees anyway, and for my particular vehicle they have agreed to MSRP) I'll just laugh in their face and walk out.

My impression is the EV market is going to be dominated by those with huge disposable incomes, keeping prices high and rewarding bad behavior from dealers, until 2024. It may take this long to get updates to the Solterra to make it more acceptable anyway.
They better figure out something. Right now a Premium is $700/month lease, and a Touring is close to $900. That won't fly. I could just get a more expensive Tesla for the same monthly payment. The Solterra was supposed to be the fiscally responsible option for us.
 

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They better figure out something. Right now a Premium is $700/month lease, and a Touring is close to $900. That won't fly. I could just get a more expensive Tesla for the same monthly payment. The Solterra was supposed to be the fiscally responsible option for us.
Every Subaru lease I've had (usually highest trim Outbacks) was essentially $10K to rent the car for 3 years. Dealers play a shell game with down payment, monthly amounts, and residual value, but the total cost of the lease is usually about the same. Dealers like to pretend all the numbers are secret and they are "working to get you the best deal", but are there comparisons of total cost across the trims somewhere?
 

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Every Subaru lease I've had (usually highest trim Outbacks) was essentially $10K to rent the car for 3 years. Dealers play a shell game with down payment, monthly amounts, and residual value, but the total cost of the lease is usually about the same. Dealers like to pretend all the numbers are secret and they are "working to get you the best deal", but are there comparisons of total cost across the trims somewhere?
This is an EV problem that the ICE Subaru's don't have...

Besides the issue of high interest rates (money factor) for all cars, the residual on non-Teslas is 52% vs 62%+ (w/o credit). Even a Forester is 62%. So, that really puts pressure on the monthly costs. The credit would have either been applied as downpayment (Subaru does that), or to inflate the residual (Tesla does that). If you lease an ID.4, Korean, and now Solterra/bZ, the residual is terrible.
 

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Dealers play a shell game with down payment, monthly amounts, and residual value,
"Down Payments" are definitely a shell game in leasing...they are actually pre-paying part of the actual monthly cost calculated with the capital cost, money factor and residual. A down payment saves pretty much zero on the actual cost of the lease. If I ever chose to lease again, there would be no "down payment" for sure.
 

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"Down Payments" are definitely a shell game in leasing...they are actually pre-paying part of the actual monthly cost calculated with the capital cost, money factor and residual. A down payment saves pretty much zero on the actual cost of the lease. If I ever chose to lease again, there would be no "down payment" for sure.
Not sure how it is a shell game.

Cash pays taxes, fees and anything leftover reduces your monthly payments.
 

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Not sure how it is a shell game.

Cash pays taxes, fees and anything leftover reduces your monthly payments.
I made that statement because many folks who lease do not understand that their "down payment" isn't actually saving them any money. They are fooled by the lower monthly payment which is what they focus on, rather than their actual cost. Perhaps "shell game" is too strong a term, and I apologize for that, but I stand by the reality of leasing that I'm pointing out.
 

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I made that statement because many folks who lease do not understand that their "down payment" isn't actually saving them any money. They are fooled by the lower monthly payment which is what they focus on, rather than their actual cost. Perhaps "shell game" is too strong a term, and I apologize for that, but I stand by the reality of leasing that I'm pointing out.
If you do pay a down payment (Cap Cost Reduction) you are reducing the amount of interest paid, so you are saving money to a point. However, you want as little down as possible because if you total the car, that down payment is gone. You can't recoup it, since you don't get money from the insurance company. GAP covers any loss and you just walk away.
 

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If you do pay a down payment (Cap Cost Reduction) you are reducing the amount of interest paid, so you are saving money to a point. However, you want as little down as possible because if you total the car, that down payment is gone. You can't recoup it, since you don't get money from the insurance company. GAP covers any loss and you just walk away.
A couple of my leases, I paid almost the entire lease with the down payment so my kids could get used to making a recurring payment (in addition to insurance) without killing their finances, and they could get their name on the lease to build up credit. Worked great!
 

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A couple of my leases, I paid almost the entire lease with the down payment so my kids could get used to making a recurring payment (in addition to insurance) without killing their finances, and they could get their name on the lease to build up credit. Worked great!
As I said, if you drove off the lot and totaled the car, you would have lost tens of thousands of dollars, with no recourse. So, not a good idea. You could have them on the lease, then make the full payment and have them pay you a portion monthly.
 
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If you do pay a down payment (Cap Cost Reduction) you are reducing the amount of interest paid, so you are saving money to a point. However, you want as little down as possible because if you total the car, that down payment is gone. You can't recoup it, since you don't get money from the insurance company. GAP covers any loss and you just walk away.
It's true that the capital cost reduction (down payment) reduces effective interest paid, but it's a very small amount of money. The other point you bring up is important and I did forget to mention that earlier...that "down payment" is very much at risk should there be a accident, particularly early in the lease period if GAP insurance isn't purchased. And sadly, a lot of folks who are focusing on monthly payment may forget or eschew that.
 

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It's true that the capital cost reduction (down payment) reduces effective interest paid, but it's a very small amount of money. The other point you bring up is important and I did forget to mention that earlier...that "down payment" is very much at risk should there be a accident, particularly early in the lease period if GAP insurance isn't purchased. And sadly, a lot of folks who are focusing on monthly payment may forget or eschew that.
Luckily it has always been free or standard on Subaru leases.
 
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