[the hagfish]

I've been watching (far too many) Solterra sneak peek and review videos on youtube, and I've noticed that the european specs for both range and charge time seem better than they are in the US. (correct me if i'm wrong here: 222 mile range and 100 kw max DC charge US vs 285 mile range and 150 kw max DC charge for the EU models) I saw a youtube comment claiming that the batteries are going to be different between the US and Europe models, but haven't been able to confirm this anywhere. It would make sense to me that the actual onboard charger would have to be different between the US and european models, but it seems odd to me that the US models would have a significant disadvantage in this regard. Curious if anyone has more knowledge about the charger/batteries and why Subaru/Toyota might have made that choice?

 

[n6nl]

There is no difference in the L2 (6.6kW) charger, at this time. It supports 100-250V 50/60 Hz inputs.

The L3 high Voltage DC charger is the same, too, between all of the models and locations.

It's just the negotiated peak charging rate that varies between those models with the CATL cells (100kW) and Panasonic cells (150kW).

The US and Canada are the only reported markets in which the AWD models are getting the CATL cells.

The CATL pack is rated (gross) at 72.8kWh and the Panasonic at 71.4kWh.

That's a minor difference in the battery packs' rated capacity.

It's 3.7 Volts times 201 Amp hours times 96 cells for the Panasonic cells for 71.3952kWh gross capacity.

It's 3.7 Volts times 205 Amp hours times 96 cells for the CATL cells for 72.816kWh gross capacity.

That's about a 2% greater capacity for the CATL cells.

While the rated charging values for the CATL cells are confidential, I suspect that it's a lower value than the Panasonic cells and thus Toyota is being conservative (from an engineering perspective) in limiting the charging rate to lower values (and maybe even a completely different curve shape. etc.) for battery pack longevity with the CATL cells.

The only real downside to this whole mess is that those of us buying an AWD in the US or Canada will be spending 1.5x-2x longer waiting at DCFC.

I intend to own mine until I can no longer reasonably drive (in about 20 years) and it sucks that on trips, we'll waste more of our precious retirement time sitting in a damn charging station because Toyota/Subaru can't source enough Panasonic cells to meet demand.

It is my choice to go ahead and suck it up and buy this under-performing configuration, but I am not as happy about it, but won't wait to see in what future year they switch back to Panasonic, if ever.

But, I do appreciate the conservative engineering approach and great build quality and durability that has me thinking I will get the desired 20 years out of the car and be an otherwise satisfied owner (except for the occasional road trips, which are better served by renting a Piper Arrow II and doing 143 knots towards my destination).

 

[Craig Birkett]

I believe the 285 mile range that we sometimes see advertised is the WLTP testing standard which is used in Europe and elsewhere. In the U.S. we use the EPA standard rating which seems to be more realistic.

 

[the hagfish]

Thank you so much for that very thorough answer, and I hope you get a great 20 years out of your Solterra! Honestly i've only used a DC fast charger 2 or 3 times in the last 3 years owning an EV (even one with a limited range, ~70 miles for a 2016 bmw i3) so I prefer the longevity of the battery over the rapid charging.

 

[the hagfish]

I believe the 285 mile range that we sometimes see advertised is the WLTP testing standard which is used in Europe and elsewhere. In the U.S. we use the EPA standard rating which seems to be more realistic.

I had that thought as well, but it seems like a ~30% difference is a bit crazy. I'm hopeful that Subaru is looking to under promise and over deliver. Time will tell I suppose!

 

[Craig Birkett]

I agree, it is crazy. As a newbie to EVs, I am highly disappointed in the DC charge rate of the Solterra, even though I'm probably only going to need to use DC charging about twice a year.

 

[n6nl]

US	Premium 228 miles EPA	Limited 222 miles EPA	Touring 222 miles EPA
Japan	ET-SS AWD 336 miles WLTC	ET-HS AWD 303 miles WLTC
UK	Limited 289 miles WTLP combined	Touring 257 miles WLTP combined
Norway	Nordic 290 miles WLTP combined	Limited 260 miles WLTP combined	Sport 260 miles WLTP combined
Hungary	Comfort 289 miles WLTP combined	Platinum/Platinum Plus 257 miles WLTP combined

Those are five markets I looked at, and the available trim levels (from lightest car to heaviest, not in any particular vertical column) with the ratings (converted from km and rounded to US statute miles).

I leave it as an exercise to the reader to research the various rating systems, which will vary tremendously by speed, acceleration, etc., which will favor or penalize vehicles differently, depending upon steady state speeds, acceleration/regen-decel rates, etc. Weight and coefficient of drag and effective frontal area will all have an effect.

But all vehicles have a similar 71.4/72.8 kWh battery pack.

So you'll see ratings between apparently 222 and 336 miles for the Solterra AWD, depending upon which country is reporting it.

I skipped the ET-SS FWD Solterra from Japan. It's similar to the FWD bZ4X.

I love reading US-based news about Subaru and how all of their vehicles are AWD. Simpletons. Not true. Older vehicles, Solterra and BRZ, depending upon markets.

 

[n6nl]

I see that:

Subaru Solterra AWD - tech specs | myEVreview

Reports charging rates for both the nominal 6.6kW and the supposed optional 11kW charger (three phase in Europe and single phase 120/240V in the US).

Interestingly, they seem to believe that there's an optional 11 kW charger available for the Solterra in the US.

That would be nice, but Subaru will piss off a lot of the people who put down a deposit in February and just ordered their cars, if they can't get that 11 kW charger as an early adopter and get stuck with the slower L2 charger.

Way to piss off your customers.

I'll bet we don't see this charger in the US for quite a while.

Interesting reading as a possibility, none the less.

So much rumor and speculatiion.

And Subaru of America isn't even offering the vehicles for ordering at this time.

 

[JayEM]

I see that:

Subaru Solterra AWD - tech specs | myEVreview

Reports charging rates for both the nominal 6.6kW and the supposed optional 11kW charger (three phase in Europe and single phase 120/240V in the US).

Interestingly, they seem to believe that there's an optional 11 kW charger available for the Solterra in the US.

That would be nice, but Subaru will piss off a lot of the people who put down a deposit in February and just ordered their cars, if they can't get that 11 kW charger as an early adopter and get stuck with the slower L2 charger.

Way to piss off your customers.

I'll bet we don't see this charger in the US for quite a while.

Interesting reading as a possibility, none the less.

So much rumor and speculatiion.

And Subaru of America isn't even offering the vehicles for ordering at this time.

I'm fine with just 6.6. My home EVSE is only 3.5 (16 amp) and has been fine for the last 5 years. If you can charge at home, 11 isn't enough to be very helpful with long trips, and there aren't many (or any) 11 kW public AC chargers anyway in North America. If you need to use on-street AC charging and 11 kW was available, it would be great if the car could accept it.

 

[StevenH]

I'm fine with just 6.6. My home EVSE is only 3.5 (16 amp) and has been fine for the last 5 years. If you can charge at home, 11 isn't enough to be very helpful with long trips, and there aren't many (or any) 11 kW public AC chargers anyway in North America. If you need to use on-street AC charging and 11 kW was available, it would be great if the car could accept it.

Tesla destination chargers are 22 kW (I've read). An adapter can be purchased for non-Teslas to use them.

 

[bob E]

Subaru will piss off a lot of the people who put down a deposit in February and just ordered their cars, if they can't get that 11 kW charger as an early adopter and get stuck with the slower L2 charger.

Let's face it, Americans just aren't as discerning as folks in other countries:

• embraced Walmart and the cheap Chinese imports first, allowing more stuff to be accumulated.
• Superfast internet? South Korea wins, U.S. lags far behind
• given a choice of a local Cafe and Starbucks, most Americans head to Starbucks, where an order of flavor laden coffee is the same, or greater, than the price of a can of Café Bustelo®.
• would rather watch talking heads on TV rather than read a good newspaper.

I'm surprised that you have to wonder why Subaru is sending CATL batteries to the US rather than Europe. (I prefer to think of them as 'cattle' batteries because I'm sure that many capitalists think of Americans as farm animals to foist undesirable things onto.)

Like you, I expect to be driving the Solterra for the next twenty years; it is probably my last Subaru, unless I get Tesla'd. (We'll have to see how long the displays and electronic geegaws last.) Too bad it is a Toyotaru.

(Does anyone know of an aftermarket exterior speaker system, complete with a subwoofer, that will make an EV sound like a WRX? Texans love cars with loud, or non-existent, muffler systems.)

 

[StevenH]

Let's face it, Americans just aren't as discerning as folks in other countries:

• embraced Walmart and the cheap Chinese imports first, allowing more stuff to be accumulated.
• Superfast internet? South Korea wins, U.S. lags far behind
• given a choice of a local Cafe and Starbucks, most Americans head to Starbucks, where an order of flavor laden coffee is the same, or greater, than the price of a can of Café Bustelo®.
• would rather watch talking heads on TV rather than read a good newspaper.

I'm surprised that you have to wonder why Subaru is sending CATL batteries to the US rather than Europe. (I prefer to think of them as 'cattle' batteries because I'm sure that many capitalists think of Americans as farm animals to foist undesirable things onto.)

Like you, I expect to be driving the Solterra for the next twenty years; it is probably my last Subaru, unless I get Tesla'd. (We'll have to see how long the displays and electronic geegaws last.) Too bad it is a Toyotaru.

(Does anyone know of an aftermarket exterior speaker system, complete with a subwoofer, that will make an EV sound like a WRX? Texans love cars with loud, or non-existent, muffler systems.)

There are other countries. I'll help you pack. 😉

 

[Crumas]

I see that:

Subaru Solterra AWD - tech specs | myEVreview

Reports charging rates for both the nominal 6.6kW and the supposed optional 11kW charger (three phase in Europe and single phase 120/240V in the US).

Interestingly, they seem to believe that there's an optional 11 kW charger available for the Solterra in the US.

That would be nice, but Subaru will piss off a lot of the people who put down a deposit in February and just ordered their cars, if they can't get that 11 kW charger as an early adopter and get stuck with the slower L2 charger.

Way to piss off your customers.

I'll bet we don't see this charger in the US for quite a while.

Interesting reading as a possibility, none the less.

So much rumor and speculatiion.

And Subaru of America isn't even offering the vehicles for ordering at this time.

I seem to remember someone on this forum posting a bZ4X document from Toyota that stated the 11 kW charger would be available in cars produced late 2022 and that the first wave of vehicles would have a 6.6 kW charger.

So, at least from that perspective the information wasn’t completely hidden, but I don’t remember Subaru communicating anything like that.

 

[Crumas]

Let's face it, Americans just aren't as discerning as folks in other countries:

• embraced Walmart and the cheap Chinese imports first, allowing more stuff to be accumulated.
• Superfast internet? South Korea wins, U.S. lags far behind
• given a choice of a local Cafe and Starbucks, most Americans head to Starbucks, where an order of flavor laden coffee is the same, or greater, than the price of a can of Café Bustelo®.
• would rather watch talking heads on TV rather than read a good newspaper.

I'm surprised that you have to wonder why Subaru is sending CATL batteries to the US rather than Europe. (I prefer to think of them as 'cattle' batteries because I'm sure that many capitalists think of Americans as farm animals to foist undesirable things onto.)

Like you, I expect to be driving the Solterra for the next twenty years; it is probably my last Subaru, unless I get Tesla'd. (We'll have to see how long the displays and electronic geegaws last.) Too bad it is a Toyotaru.

(Does anyone know of an aftermarket exterior speaker system, complete with a subwoofer, that will make an EV sound like a WRX? Texans love cars with loud, or non-existent, muffler systems.)

I‘m also disappointed by the decision to use CATL packs in USA-sold vehicles when buyers in the EU and the UK and Japan will get the Panasonic packs. I’ve puzzled over the reasoning behind where this particular line was drawn by Toyota/Subaru, but considering they consider information like which Li-Ion chemistry is being used to be “proprietary”, it’s unlikely they‘ll openly discuss their reasoning behind why America is getting the CATL packs.

 

[mg64ve]

, It's 3.7 Volts times 201 Amp hours times 96 cells for the Panasonic cells for 71.3952kWh gross capacity.It's 3.7 Volts times 205 Amp hours times 96 cells for the CATL cells for 72.816kWh gross capacity

What about chemistry @n6nl ? Are the Panasonic NCM and the CATL LFP batteries?

 

[n6nl]

If both packs have 96 cells and are stated to be 355.2V packs, they are both most likely to be NMC. LFP has a lower nominal, high and peak charging voltage than LFP.

 

[mg64ve]

What about this famous sentence they are designed to keep 90% of range after 10 years or 240000km? What do you think @n6nl ?

 

[n6nl]

Conservative charging regime

 

[md.]

If both packs have 96 cells and are stated to be 355.2V packs, they are both most likely to be NMC. LFP has a lower nominal, high and peak charging voltage than LFP.

Initial information floating around a while ago (who knows how reliable?) was NCA for the FWD and NMC for the AWD.

 

[StevenH]

What about this famous sentence they are designed to keep 90% of range after 10 years or 240000km? What do you think @n6nl ?

Earlier on, I was hoping that just meant good thermal management. But, with this charging speed, now I don't know.