[442]

Who wants to bet Subaru is trying to figure out how much of the Solterra can be shipped to Indiana and bolted together to qualify as "assembled in America" for tax purposes?

Back when I had a more intimate association with the Jeep ecosystem, DaimlerChrysler did this exact same thing with the Wrangler (and it is likely still going on). To reduce cost, the bulk of the Wrangler is outsourced to suppliers to the extent they have their own factories adjacent to the Toledo Wrangler assembly line. Just enough of the vehicle is transferred to the Jeep assembly line to be bolted together to satisfy some legal definition of union worker assembled.

From Wikipedia

Toledo Supplier Park opened in 2007 by DaimlerChrysler to produce the new Jeep Wrangler. The name comes from the two on-site suppliers who make different parts for the Wrangler. There is Mobis North America (formerly OMMC) owned by Hyundai Mobis, which assembles the chassis, axles and power train, and KUKA Toledo Production Operations (KTPO), a wholly owned subsidiary of KUKA Systems North America LLC, which operates the body shop; both employ their own employees and control their own operations. While the suppliers may make most of the parts, final assembly is done by Chrysler. The Toledo Supplier Park sits on the same site as the Stickney Plant. The Jeep Wrangler is produced at this plant.

 

[FelineFreddie]

At least for the short term…That would be great, if true, but I’m not counting on it. Moving production to a different continent isn’t such an easy process.

However, it’s something I would expect eventually, especially if Toyota/Subaru wish to be competitive in the EV business in the USA.

 

[Ducatista]

Who wants to bet Subaru is trying to figure out how much of the Solterra can be shipped to Indiana and bolted together to qualify as "assembled in America" for tax purposes?

Back when I had a more intimate association with the Jeep ecosystem, DaimlerChrysler did this exact same thing with the Wrangler (and it is likely still going on). To reduce cost, the bulk of the Wrangler is outsourced to suppliers to the extent they have their own factories adjacent to the Toledo Wrangler assembly line. Just enough of the vehicle is transferred to the Jeep assembly line to be bolted together to satisfy some legal definition of union worker assembled.

From Wikipedia

Interesting take. But I am not sure if its an option really. From reports I have read, the Indiana factory has been plagued with worker shortage. Not necessarily because of COVID and time off or anything. They cannot seem to hire enough employees from a report I read or watched on youtube or something, like people don't want to work there. Could be false information though, cause ya know, internet and all haha

 

[rfrancis073]

Who wants to bet Subaru is trying to figure out how much of the Solterra can be shipped to Indiana and bolted together to qualify as "assembled in America" for tax purposes?

Back when I had a more intimate association with the Jeep ecosystem, DaimlerChrysler did this exact same thing with the Wrangler (and it is likely still going on). To reduce cost, the bulk of the Wrangler is outsourced to suppliers to the extent they have their own factories adjacent to the Toledo Wrangler assembly line. Just enough of the vehicle is transferred to the Jeep assembly line to be bolted together to satisfy some legal definition of union worker assembled.

From Wikipedia

Note that the tax law states "Final Assembly" not "Assembled in". I worked for a company that got around NAFTA requirements by doing some value added "Final Assembly" in the US to satisfy requirements. Not sure if it will work with the new tax law as the IRS seems to be straight out defining which vehicles qualify.

 

[Kenfused]

just ship them here, and fix lug nuts in the US!

 

[rfrancis073]

just ship them here, and fix lug nuts in the US!

I said the same thing earlier. The locking wheel bolts (optional wheel security) is already a port installed option (at least on the BZ4X). Why not make them all port installed, lol!

 

[JayEM]

"Huge surprise" here:

Toyota to Invest Up to 730 Billion Yen in Japan/U.S. Battery Production

 

[rfrancis073]

"Huge surprise" here:

Toyota to Invest Up to 730 Billion Yen in Japan/U.S. Battery Production

Saw that on the new search this morning. I think that alone should be enough for the Dept. of Treasury to grant waivers to these car companies making such a big, expensive effort to get things going in North America. I guess we will see as the lobbying goes on.

 

[StevenH]

The Toyota North Carolina battery plant was great news back in March when they committed $1.29B. More exciting still that they've nearly doubled the commitment there to $2.5B.

 

[StevenH]

Saw that on the new search this morning. I think that alone should be enough for the Dept. of Treasury to grant waivers to these car companies making such a big, expensive effort to get things going in North America. I guess we will see as the lobbying goes on.

Not mention critical minerals:

https://elkodaily.com/mining/ioneer-signs-lithium-agreement-with-toyota-panasonic-jv/article_4e2fb79e-11f4-11ed-9ac6-bf1a56fc4d7f.html

 

[rfrancis073]

Not mention critical minerals:

https://elkodaily.com/mining/ioneer-signs-lithium-agreement-with-toyota-panasonic-jv/article_4e2fb79e-11f4-11ed-9ac6-bf1a56fc4d7f.html

100% AGREE. With that said, I don't think our dysfunctional government will get anything right when it comes to possibly granting waivers. Maybe big auto needs to up the political donations, lol!

 

[JayEM]

100% AGREE. With that said, I don't think our dysfunctional government will get anything right when it comes to possibly granting waivers. Maybe big auto needs to up the political donations, lol!

I've been shopping a few other EVs recently..... it's not like there are any EVs piling up on dealer lots, so even without the FTC all currently available EVs will be selling quickly through the end of the year.

 

[StevenH]

I've been shopping a few other EVs recently..... it's not like there are any EVs piling up on dealer lots, so even without the FTC all currently available EVs will be selling quickly through the end of the year.

All will be sold, but when there are credits, at least a portion of them are accessible to the slightly less wealthy.

 

[rfrancis073]

I've been shopping a few other EVs recently..... it's not like there are any EVs piling up on dealer lots, so even without the FTC all currently available EVs will be selling quickly through the end of the year.

Before changing to the BZ4X, I had a reservation for the VW ID.4. Looked at a demo unit and liked the styling but after reading around, there seems to be quite a few that were basically entering limp mode and needed major parts exchanged (which were hard to come by). Also don't like the fact that the tire sizes are different in front and rear.

Looked at the EV6 and Ionic 5 but couldn't get past the styling.

Looked at Genesys EV60 - loved the features, power and other items but couldn't get past the styling.

Don't like Tesla styling or reported reliability and quality issues.

There were others but I generally don't like certain manufacturers from either bad past experience or bad ratings throughout the years.

I actually like the looks of the Solterra more than the BZ4X but missed the ordering window....so here I am. It's hard to get any kind of choice of an EV in Kentucky. I was lucky to buy a Rav4 Prime in New York last year and the dealer agreed to put me on the BZ4X list since I was a previous customer.

I really like what Toyota, Panasonic and other EV makers are doing with respect to US manufacturing expansion. I just think it's crappy that they don't get a phase in / out period on credits before kicking those "Final Assembly in North America" requirements in. These companies have billion dollar factories scattered in the US and employ 10,000's of people (more when suppliers are factored in). They deserve more than a quick kick in the nuts (and I say that whether I was in line for a credit or not initially).

 

[442]

So annoying that Toyota can’t just make a simple statement without adding in their “but electric vehicles aren’t the answer“ disclaimer to everything.

Toyota believes that there is more than one option for achieving carbon neutrality. It also believes that the means of reducing CO2 emissions as much as possible and as quickly as possible while protecting the livelihoods of its customers vary greatly depending on the country and region. With such in mind, Toyota will continue to make every effort to flexibly meet the needs of its various customers in all countries and regions by offering multiple powertrains and providing as many options as possible.

 

[frankamartin]

From reports I have read, the Indiana factory has been plagued with worker shortage. Not necessarily because of COVID and time off or anything. They cannot seem to hire enough employees from a report I read or watched on youtube or something, like people don't want to work there.

While neither the Subaru nor Toyota plant in Indiana is in a major rural area, the Lafeyette is only marginally smaller than Evansville

• Lafayette metropolitan area, Indiana population 225,000 home of SIA Subaru of Indiana Automotive (Ascent, Legacy, OUtback, Impeza for North America; founded 1987
• Evansville metropolitan area , Indiana population 358,676 home of TMMI Toyota Motor Manufacturing Indiana (Sienna, Highlander); founded May 1996
• Indianapolis-Carmel-Muncie, Indiana Combined Statistical Area , population 2,457,286 home of Honda Manufacturing of Indiana (HMIN), also called Indiana Auto Plant (IAP), can draw from a larger pool of workers; founded on March 19, 2007.

 

[442]

...It's hard to get any kind of choice of an EV in Kentucky. I was lucky to buy a Rav4 Prime in New York last year and the dealer agreed to put me on the BZ4X list since I was a previous customer...

Are you traveling from KY to NY to get a bZ4X? Seems like you should get a rebate just for that.

 

[rfrancis073]

Are you traveling from KY to NY to get a bZ4X? Seems like you should get a rebate just for that.

Yes, same thing I did for the Rav4 Prime June 2021. It's at Niagara Falls so I don't mind it at all. Was a great trip last year (first time to the Falls). Going to the Canada side this year (have Passports and no Covid blocks that I know of).

The love of the Rav4 Prime is what has us interested in the BZ4X (Would be Solterra too if I didn't miss the order window - like it better than the BZ).

 

[442]

 

[kingrikk]

I've been shopping a few other EVs recently..... it's not like there are any EVs piling up on dealer lots, so even without the FTC all currently available EVs will be selling quickly through the end of the year.

Indeed - I think this is the reason the UK rebate stopped too. Doesn’t seem to have suppressed the appetite of people here for EVs.