[manoharg]

Here is the back story.

Our family was waiting to buy 2 EVs for the last 2-3 years.
We tend to have 1 New Lexus RX450Hybrid, 1 Old Lexus RX Hybrid and 1 Subaru Forester/Outback. We are a family of 4 drivers. (2 college age kids)
We are pretty loyal to Lexus and Subaru. We came close to buying Tesla many times. But Elon Musk's opportunistic and erratic behavior is a big strike against buying Tesla. I am a fairly centrist/moderate independent in my world view. We considered Audi but got turned off with service charges and general Audi reliability factor.

We decided to buy one Subaru Solterra EV and one Lexus RX EV. I had a chat with a Lexus sales guy and he said that for the first two years or so, it will be extremely difficult to get hold of a Lexus EV. He said that model year 2024-25 is something that I should be prepared to wait. He said the demand for Lexus EV is very strong.

We are seriously thinking of buying 2 Subaru Solterra's. The plan is to keep one Solterra and trade in the second Solterra once we had a shot at buying Lexus RX EV at MSRP or lower.

Here is the issue:
We need one car to be always available to drive. That means always charged at least 50 to 60 percent. We have leftover L2 charger (from our Leaf years of 2012 )in the Garage and at least 4 DC fast charger sites and 1 Tesla super charger within 1-6 miles from our home.

Given the Solterra's slow rate of charging, Is it worth gambling that Subaru will do a OTA that may improve the charging rate? I think that they will do.

Want to hear some opinions from folks. Should I take a chance on 2 Subaru Solterra's. We will keep the second one only for couple of years. In our area, Subaru sells a lot. I can count around 8 or 10 Subaru dealerships in our metro area.(Moutain West). I am betting that Solterra will keep its resale value in our area.

Am I over my head?

 

[R P]

Don't count on any change/improvement to the charging times. You didn't say what kind of driving you will be doing with the Solterra. If just around town and short trips, and some off-road, it will be fine. But if you plan to use it for longer trips, this car is not for you. There are many better choices for that.

 

[n6nl]

If the Lexus RZ has the same absymal charging issues and the same range as the Solterra and bZ4X, at the price they'll want, they won't fly off the lots, IMO.

 

[R P]

You have to remember this is the first BEV for Subaru/Toyota/Lexus. You shouldn't expect it to be the best in everything. They will learn from it. Look for much better offerings in their 2nd gen products, like 800V architecture due out probably 2024-25.

But for now, their long waiting brand loyal followers will buy it. The good part is that it is primarily a Toyota product, so at the least the quality/reliability should be good. And am very sure they don't want to take any chances screwing it up, with an unproven design and hasty roll-out.

 

[Tyler]

If I were you, I'd buy an Ioniq 5 and a Solterra. I think those are pretty complementary cars for a wide range of uses: Solterra for around town and rough roads, Ioniq 5 for road trips.

I would be ready to drop any Toyota/Lexus brand loyalty depending on their decisions as we approach the switch to EVs. Tesla bros love to say that all 'legacy' automakers are going under and will fall to Tesla's might. That's obviously a ridiculous position in general but might actually be true for Toyota. I would personally be very skeptical of EVs made by an automaker actively lobbying against EVs. Toyota Led on Clean Cars. Now Critics Say It Works to Delay Them.

Subaru had some role in the Solterra and seems to have a better long-term game plan so I'm a bit less skeptical there.

 

[n6nl]

I believe when they decided to go with the lesser-performing CATL cells in order to sell as many as they could since their Panasonic partner wouldn’t be able to make enough for demand, I would call that a hasty roll-out. Let’s just pawn them off on the faithful.

 

[R P]

If I were you, I'd buy an Ioniq 5 and a Solterra. I think those are pretty complementary cars for a wide range of uses: Solterra for around town and rough roads, Ioniq 5 for road trips.

That's exactly my plan.

I would be ready to drop any Toyota/Lexus brand loyalty depending on their decisions as we approach the switch to EVs. Tesla bros love to say that all 'legacy' automakers are going under and will fall to Tesla's might. That's obviously a ridiculous position in general but might actually be true for Toyota. I would personally be very skeptical of EVs made by an automaker actively lobbying against EVs. Toyota Led on Clean Cars. Now Critics Say It Works to Delay Them.
Subaru had some role in the Solterra and seems to have a better long-term game plan so I'm a bit less skeptical there.

Telsa and other EV fanbois love to hate Toyota for being late to the game. But I think it was strictly a business decision, which may turn out to be a very good one given the current turmoil with the chip and supply chain issues. But they will be there, no doubt about that.

And it is pretty clear, Subaru will not survive long term without Toyota. I think it is just a matter of time before Toyota buys them out entirely. I think they will retain the Subaru brand, as long as it can sustain its outdoor adventure legacy.

 

[Tyler]

I believe when they decided to go with the lesser-performing CATL cells in order to sell as many as they could since their Panasonic partner wouldn’t be able to make enough for demand, I would call that a hasty roll-out. Let’s just pawn them off on the faithful.

This entirely supports your point:
"The all-wheel-drive BZ4X models have a slightly larger 72.8-kwh pack with CATL cells, but Wantanabe told GCR the Panasonic cells offer better performance." Test drive review: 2023 Lexus RZ 450e steers for China, and a US niche

 

[Tyler]

Telsa and other EV fanbois love to hate Toyota for being late to the game. But I think it was strictly a business decision, which may turn out to be a very good one given the current turmoil with the chip and supply chain issues. But they will be there, no doubt about that.

Depends on how you show up to the party that you're late to. The bz4x feels like Toyota telling everyone the party is going to suck and then showing up late with a 4-pack of Coors Light and expecting everyone to cheer because they actually came. Meanwhile Hyundai/Kia are arguably also late, as the Ioniq, Kona, Niro and Soul weren't produced in large numbers, but since they were already late, they figured they better spend a while at the store picking some nice bottles of wine and liquor.

 

[n6nl]

A four pack of 8 oz. cans… to a large party.

 

[R P]

Meanwhile Hyundai/Kia are arguably also late, as the Ioniq, Kona, Niro and Soul weren't produced in large numbers, but since they were already late, they figured they better spend a while at the store picking some nice bottles of wine and liquor.

I wouldn't call Hyundai/Kia late. They started with the Soul and Ioniq quite a few years ago. The Kona/Nero was their 2nd gen and a big step forward. Ioniq 5/EV6 are 3rd gen and pack leaders now.

I had a Kona for 3 years, and it was a pretty good EV for its time. So Hyundai/Kia are certainly well on their way.

Actually, it is Honda that is really behind. They have to depend on GM to get their EV program going.

First 2024 Honda Prologue SUV Sketch Released, US EV Plans Detailed

The Prologue electric SUV co-developed with GM will debut in 2024 with power from Ultium batteries, but Honda does not reveal any specifications yet.

insideevs.com

 

[manoharg]

You have to remember this is the first BEV for Subaru/Toyota/Lexus. You shouldn't expect it to be the best in everything. They will learn from it. Look for much better offerings in their 2nd gen products, like 800V architecture due out probably 2024-25.

But for now, their long waiting brand loyal followers will buy it. The good part is that it is primarily a Toyota product, so at the least the quality/reliability should be good. And am very sure they don't want to take any chances screwing it up, with an unproven design and hasty roll-out.

Yes. I agree. Lexus/Toyota have 800V plans for 2024-25. That will be nice.

 

[manoharg]

If I were you, I'd buy an Ioniq 5 and a Solterra. I think those are pretty complementary cars for a wide range of uses: Solterra for around town and rough roads, Ioniq 5 for road trips.

I would be ready to drop any Toyota/Lexus brand loyalty depending on their decisions as we approach the switch to EVs. Tesla bros love to say that all 'legacy' automakers are going under and will fall to Tesla's might. That's obviously a ridiculous position in general but might actually be true for Toyota. I would personally be very skeptical of EVs made by an automaker actively lobbying against EVs. Toyota Led on Clean Cars. Now Critics Say It Works to Delay Them.

Subaru had some role in the Solterra and seems to have a better long-term game plan so I'm a bit less skeptical there.

I was thinking of Ioniq 5 given that Hyundai's quality improved to be almost on par with Toyota. I will go for it when I donot have to pay over MSRP in our area.

 

[StevenH]

If the Lexus RZ has the same absymal charging issues and the same range as the Solterra and bZ4X, at the price they'll want, they won't fly off the lots, IMO.

The RZ has the Panasonic battery and charges 0-80% in 30 minutes.

 

[R P]

The RZ has the Panasonic battery and charges 0-80% in 30 minutes.

Has someone actually tested that? I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Mpls612]

You have to remember this is the first BEV for Subaru/Toyota/Lexus. You shouldn't expect it to be the best in everything. They will learn from it. Look for much better offerings in their 2nd gen products, like 800V architecture due out probably 2024-25.

But for now, their long waiting brand loyal followers will buy it. The good part is that it is primarily a Toyota product, so at the least the quality/reliability should be good. And am very sure they don't want to take any chances screwing it up, with an unproven design and hasty roll-out.

funny that other companies, that haven’t been making hybrid cars for 20-years, have figured out how to put out a better car. a lot of the reviewers have called Toyota out for the huge miss.

 

[Muskoka_Detour]

The RZ has the Panasonic battery and charges 0-80% in 30 minutes.

But then what would be the price of the RZ? Are you willing to pay for that difference?

I asked my local Lexus dealer and they couldn't provide timeline/pricing for the RZ.

From the way things at looking at now, I maybe looking at abandoning buying a new vehicle this year.

 

[Mpls612]

Here is the back story.

We are seriously thinking of buying 2 Subaru Solterra's. The plan is to keep one Solterra and trade in the second Solterra once we had a shot at buying Lexus RX EV at MSRP or lower.

did you consider leasing one or both of the Solterras? I don’t know how well they will hold their value given the tech is already behind the competition

one article I just read - I’m sure there are plenty more out there.

Buying Vs Leasing An EV: Which Option Is Better For You? - SlashGear

Entering the electric vehicle market can be an expensive proposition. Here's when it might be best to lease the vehicle instead of buying.

www.slashgear.com

 

[Muskoka_Detour]

did you consider leasing one or both of the Solterras? I don’t know how well they will hold their value given the tech is already behind the competition

one article I just read - I’m sure there are plenty more out there.

Buying Vs Leasing An EV: Which Option Is Better For You? - SlashGear

Entering the electric vehicle market can be an expensive proposition. Here's when it might be best to lease the vehicle instead of buying.

www.slashgear.com

If you go with the leasing route don't lease the second Solterra. I would lease a cheaper gas vehicle (like a Civic or Corolla) as the cut-over vehicle; the difference means more money goes towards the payment for the RZ - which is your end goal.

 

[StevenH]

But then what would be the price of the RZ? Are you willing to pay for that difference?

Probably in the 60's and a tax credit of $3750 if delivery is taken by the end of March 2023. This year will be very limited quantities (approximately 5200) and they'll sell out in minutes.